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Cp-Coder wrote: It's the (young) unvaccinated people who get sick and then infect the old and vulnerable.
I talked with a recruiter on Friday and his whole family, kids and wife, and parents have all just come down with covid and they were ALL fully vaccinated.
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Member 15329613 wrote: have all just come down with covid and they were ALL fully vaccinated.
Soliders wearing keblar do die too.
Vaccines only reduce spreading and severity. They don't make you 100% inmune. And some preparates are some less effective than others
M.D.V. 
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Nelek wrote: They don't make you 100% inmune
I believe the measles and polio and chickenpox and other required childhood ones do.
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I don't think there is 100% security in anything except that we will all die sooner or later.
Those vaccines are like 98% or 99% but not 100%, that's why when the huge amount of people unvaccinated came in 2015, there were again some increase on measles in Germany.
M.D.V.
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Cp-Coder wrote: You can indirectly cause the death of a vulnerable person!
How dare you drive your car everyday. You might kill someone! So selfish.
Hopefully that hyperbole will resonate.
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The important bit is that driving a car it is assumed that you will act in a manner to not cause harm to others - that's why you have to have a valid licence, why the "rules of the road" exist. If you act in a manner that is likely to cause harm to others - driving drunk, running red lights, speeding past a school bus, having completely bald tyres or shot brakes, ... - then legal sanctions exist to punish you for your lack of consideration.
You are ignoring that implicit requirement as far as Covid is concerned.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Mortality of polio - ~ 0.2%-3%
Mortality of measles - 0.1%
From the CDC:
Before 1963, approximately 500,000 cases and 500 measles deaths were reported annually, with epidemic cycles every 2 to 3 years.
Approximately 70% of all polio infections in children are asymptomatic. Quote: Less than 1% of all polio infections in children result in flaccid paralysis.
Quote: The case fatality ratio for paralytic polio is generally 2% to 5% among children and up to 15% to 30% among adolescents and adults.
Not many people complain about the vaccinations for measles and polio (loonies not counted).
I don't think it's a question of "fear", but of "common sense" to use the tools we have to prevent disease.
TTFN - Kent
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Kent Sharkey wrote: I don't think it's a question of "fear", but of "common sense" to use the tools we have to prevent disease.
Sadly, common sense is not that common. 
M.D.V.
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Aye! 
/ravi
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Kent Sharkey wrote: to use the tools we have to prevent disease.
But the vaccination does not prevent the disease in this case.
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No, but it is a big help if you manage to avoid hospital because the severity decreases a lot for the most people.
There always are exceptions, but the big % gets benefits from it.
M.D.V.
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Hey, I'm not wearing seatbelts because they don't prevent accidents. Look at how smart I am!
GCS d--(d-) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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The OP claimed the vaccination prevents disease.
den2k88 wrote: I'm not wearing seatbelts because they don't prevent accidents.
Your analogy does not work because no one has ever claimed that seatbelts prevent accidents.
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No... it is just a tool to get less injured in case of an accident.
The same as vaccines lesser the severity / chances of getting ill for that disease.
You can have an accident / get ill anyways, but the results are statistically going to be less... what it doesn't mean that you might get the black peter and the worst accident / illness possible, no matter what you do against it.
Probability is a b1tch.
M.D.V.
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Nelek wrote: if you manage to avoid hospital
There was an interesting study done recently and I don't recall the exact numbers, but it was something like 75% of people overestimate the likelihood of having to go to the hospital if they got covid. It's only a 5-7% chance you'll be hospitalized but most people think it is way higher.
Nelek wrote: but the big % gets benefits from it.
In this case I am not convinced. So many people that are vaccinated are still getting it and of course there is no way to prove that the vaccine prevented you from getting covid.
Also, there are lots of links to health problems caused by the vaccination.
In the beginning they likened this to the flu and unfortunately that's exactly how it's behaving, meaning the vaccine from 3 months ago may no longer be good.
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How many medicaments for a thing give problems in another thing?
And still many are happy to get the "collateral damages" because the primary reason for that medicament is way worse.
Again... probability / statistics.
There are some cases getting side effects (more or less severe), there are some cases getting ill although they are vaccinated, I know.
But the important thing are the big numbers, not the concrete cases.
And yes, I know it sucks if one is the concrete case.
Member 15329613 wrote: In the beginning they likened this to the flu and unfortunately that's exactly how it's behaving, meaning the vaccine from 3 months ago may no longer be good.
Maybe. I hope not, but it might be... we'll see.
Flu alike or not Flu alike, it will stay for a while... that's for sure.
M.D.V.
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Cp-Coder was as near as I can tell merely making a reasonably logical deduction as to the motivation of those late comers in response to the many such reported deaths w/ no intention of scaring anyone As for being scared it seems a logical response to what may be a serious condition As for the media's intentions as near as I can tell they are merely reporting the facts "Recovery" may be 99% but we now know there are long term effects which as far as I know are yet to be well known so a "recovery" of 99% has little meaning Hospitals are overflowing with COVID patients Doctors and Nurses are exhausted and fed up We have to walk around wearing masks w/ no end in sight I come to the conclusion this is a ___ing serious situation Better to be scared than not - Cheerio
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I beg to differ. According to the Israeli Ministry of Health, the majority of those who are infected are those who are unvaccinated. Only a negligible number of people who received the booster (for a total of 3 shots) have fallen ill.
Note that this maybe an understatement- only those who actually have symptoms are liable to get tested.
Among those who are severely ill (requiring hospitalization), the overwhelming majority are unvaccinated.
The data are all here, but the graphs' legends are in Hebrew. Sorry.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Around 20 - 25% of all infections in Ontario, Canada, are in the fully vaccinated. That's expected since we're at 80% fully vaccinated.
Here's my take on the maths:
Suppose you have 2 people, 1 vaccinated, 1 unvaccinated. Suppose they do everything together, even get exposed to COVID together. If the unvaccinated fell ill in a given situation, the vaccinated has only a 5% chance of falling ill in that same situation.
Now suppose you have a random collection of people, 80% vaccinated, getting exposed in a way that would lead them to falling ill. 5% of vaccinated would fall ill in that scenario. If 80% of them are vaccinated then 4 times the number of vaccinated vs unvaccinated will fall ill, ie 20% of the infected group who fall ill will be vaccinated.
So our numbers, while they seem scary, are a mathematical inevitability and show the vaccines work about 95% of the time, and that break through infections occur at the rate one would expect.
The real numbers are how many fully vaccinated people with no underlying health conditions end up in the ICU. That number is very, very small.
I'm still, however, waiting for the 5G chip in my vaccine to kick in. Maybe I need to upgrade the drivers, or maybe it's that 5G in Canada is still a dodgy proposition in many places.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: I'm still, however, waiting for the 5G chip in my vaccine to kick in. Maybe I need to upgrade the drivers, or maybe it's that 5G in Canada is still a dodgy proposition in many places.
Did you already put your foil hat on? Maybe that's helping... 
The rest of your post... 
M.D.V.
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I know people (some are even family of mine) working in hospitals in two different lands, and for their empiric observations, in the hospitals they work for, the ratio of intensive station patients is clearly (like 80% or more) being unvaccinated people and not that old as before, since some weeks / couple of months ago, the average age is getting younger and younger. Back to real cases: some people that went to school with me had to stay in the hospital for several days and one even died, and I am not that old.
I can't say in the rest of the world, but if in 5 hospitals in 4 different cities in two different countries is like that... adding some deviation, even rounding down a bit... it still is a remarkable difference.
I don't usually care, what the main stream says. And I know that many, many media groups follow their own agenda. But I do trust those people and I believe the numbers they see everyday.
M.D.V.
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There's more to Covid than death. I know one family who are all suffering from long Covid; they've had it for over a year now. Another friend has been in hospital for the last 10 weeks with it. She's been in and out of intensive care with it.
Let's look at that statistic though. Assuming worst case of 97% recovery, the population of the USA is 328 million approx, so that's about 9.8 million deaths. That's a hell of a lot of people. 1% mortality is 3.2 million.
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as of today, we have only seen 688K deaths out of 42.9M cases, here in the United States.
There have been 4.55M deaths world wide, as of right now, out of 219M reported cases, out of a estimated world population of 7.9 billion.
I support vaccination. I support the science. I do not support fear mongering and I don't support people who choose to live and cower in fear because of COVID.
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May differ from country to country, but haven't seen any fear mongering. What purpose would that serve?
Drop the nonsense.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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What on earth does that mean; you don't support people who choose to live and cower in fear? If someone chooses to have the vaccine, they aren't cowering in fear. If someone is shielding, they aren't cowering in fear. If someone chooses to think of others and wear a mask, this isn't cowering in fear. Quite frankly, it's no one else's business how someone else chooses to live.
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