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Richard MacCutchan20-Jul-20 6:51

Richard MacCutchan

20-Jul-20 6:51

Always tell the truth, you may be able to convince prospective employers that all you other experience counts.

Richard Andrew x6420-Jul-20 7:08

20-Jul-20 7:08

Thank you, that's good advice. I plan to be honest.

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

Chris Maunder20-Jul-20 7:21

20-Jul-20 7:21

I'll back that up by saying I'd employ a smart, pragmatic problem solver who is open and honest and shows they can learn over someone who 5 years of experience but who won't expand their skills or is an arrogant SOB any day of the week.

Knowing a tech is super handy and a headstart for sure, but an employee is always going to have to learn a bunch of other stuff anyway so a solid, well-documented franework or service is the least of the worries.

Oh, and Fake it till you Make it seems to work too.

cheers
Chris Maunder

Richard Andrew x6420-Jul-20 7:25

20-Jul-20 7:25

Thanks Chris, I appreciate you weighing in. I'm thinking about what arguments I can make along those lines now.

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

Jörgen Andersson21-Jul-20 9:19

Jörgen Andersson

21-Jul-20 9:19

I hope you're refering to the impostor syndrome.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger

Marc Clifton20-Jul-20 8:20

Marc Clifton

20-Jul-20 8:20

That's actually a tough one. It's not like desktop development is directly transferable to Azure development, even if you are "one smart cookie." The company will incur a cost for your learning curve.

So I guess I'd say that - something along the lines of "I'm in the process of getting a certificate...and I realize that there will be additional learning that only actual experience can provide and I'm confident that I can minimize the cost of that to you."

Ideally, the fact that you're conscious of the issue should count for something!

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Richard Andrew x6420-Jul-20 8:27

20-Jul-20 8:27

Thank you for your perspective. I hadn't considered that.

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

honey the codewitch20-Jul-20 8:45

honey the codewitch

20-Jul-20 8:45

It has been years since I've worked in the field, so YMMV, but my experience has been that HR people are the ones setting experience requirements, at best with input from overworked PMs or leads who really can't be bothered putting what they're looking for in those terms.

Meaning if you have a solid professional background, especially with certifications everything hinges on the interview, not whether you have ticked off all the "prerequisites"

I was a homeless teen, so I never went to college. Pretty much every job I've ever had "required" a 4 year degree or higher. And no, I didn't lie.

Real programmers use butterflies

Richard Andrew x6420-Jul-20 9:34

20-Jul-20 9:34

Thank you for those encouraging words. Smile | :)

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

Gerry Schmitz20-Jul-20 8:56

Gerry Schmitz

20-Jul-20 8:56

Suck it up and go to one of the freelance job sites and bid on as many "Azure jobs" as you can.

I "reinvented" myself (after the 2007+ downturn) as a .NET / WPF programmer by knocking off a bunch of little .NET projects (and some not so little) that allowed me to compete (and win) more substantial stuff on my own later based on the experience I gained.

All the jobs were remote, but the fact that they were all over the world (U.S., U.K., Australia, Netherlands, Germany, etc.) made my CV more interesting (perhaps).

Couldn't have gained the experience any other way, unless you want to "volunteer". Even then, there is competition (e.g. the "community" web site master).

(The trick also was to ask for any "hourly" contract, do daily status, and say the client can cancel anytime they're not satisfied ... Their biggest fear is getting screwed on a fixed bid with or without an upfront payment. So if you can keep the fear out, you've got it made. Fixed bids are OK if they're "small", but NEVER ask for more if you blew the estimate; suck it up instead if you want to maintain a reputation)

It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food

modified 20-Jul-20 15:09pm.

DerekT-P20-Jul-20 9:28

DerekT-P

20-Jul-20 9:28

A combination of this and all the good advice above it too. Working small projects on PeoplePerHour and similar is actually a really good way of getting real-world experience. You'll find a lot of the projects are actually fixing other people's c**k-ups, but that exposes you to a wide range of errors to avoid. Assuming you're successful at fixing the problem, you're immediately "the best contractor I've ever hired on xxxxx", even if you've ONLY learnt how to fix that specific issue. But you can get some great review comments that you can reference on your CV, and most importantly, it demonstrates that you have actually been exposed to doing genuine "work" in whatever technology it is. The hard bit is winning your first contracts; you'll need to bid around the average price (which will be low) but wow the client with your assessment of the issue and your promise to keep them fully informed at every stage - then keep those promises. Treat the customer as an intelligent superior being (no matter how dumb they are) - at least until you've got some good reviews on your profile.

Best bit is, it's challenging, varied, opens your eyes to things you never expected - and if you're really lucky, you can earn so much you never need to be an employee again.

Richard Andrew x6420-Jul-20 9:36

20-Jul-20 9:36

PeoplePerHour, huh? I never heard of them, but will explore...

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

Back from the North

Chris Maunder20-Jul-20 4:45

20-Jul-20 4:45

I've just spent 2 weeks driving all over Ontario in a massive wind-sail (or RV, as some prefer to call it).

We stayed on the shores of 3 of the Great Lakes, mountain biked as much as possible and donated litres of blood to the roughly 1 quintillion mosquitoes that had seemingly never tasted anything as delicious as Australian blood before.

Oh, and Rogers cell coverage maps are a sham and a lie. The interwebz was a long forgotten memory during the trip.

So: what did I miss?

cheers
Chris Maunder

honey the codewitch20-Jul-20 4:54

honey the codewitch

20-Jul-20 4:54

We've reinstated the soapbox in your absence. Laugh | :laugh:

Real programmers use butterflies

User 1106097920-Jul-20 4:55

User 11060979

20-Jul-20 4:55

It does not solve my Problem, but it answers my question
Chemists have exactly one rule: there are only exceptions

modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.

Chris Maunder20-Jul-20 4:58

20-Jul-20 4:58

that's it, I'm packing my bags again.

cheers
Chris Maunder

OriginalGriff20-Jul-20 5:04

OriginalGriff

20-Jul-20 5:04

You prefer hordes of disease spreading, blood-sucking parasites that don't even ask before trying to destroy you to the soapbox comments? OMG | :OMG:

On second thoughts, I'm with you - where is my suitcase ...

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
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W∴ Balboos, GHB20-Jul-20 6:19

W∴ Balboos, GHB

20-Jul-20 6:19

Deep, green, and mellow,[^] and oddly enough, not a single blood-sucking insect to be found. You can go south to the north (a relativistic effect). These lakes are cozier, anyway.

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

Chris Maunder20-Jul-20 6:28

20-Jul-20 6:28

Well, we can't cross the border into the US.

And with all respect, I'm not sure it's something I'd be keen to do just yet.

cheers
Chris Maunder

RickZeeland20-Jul-20 6:21

RickZeeland

20-Jul-20 6:21

Quote:
So: what did I miss?

I know nothing ... - YouTube[^]
$Shucks | :-\$

Daniel Pfeffer20-Jul-20 6:31

Daniel Pfeffer

20-Jul-20 6:31

Chris Maunder wrote:
donated litres of blood to the roughly 1 quintillion mosquitoes that had seemingly never tasted anything as delicious as Australian blood before.

It's the

that attracts them. Big Grin | :-D

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

Chris Maunder20-Jul-20 6:32

20-Jul-20 6:32

Well, there is that Wink | ;)

cheers
Chris Maunder

Richard MacCutchan20-Jul-20 6:50

Richard MacCutchan

20-Jul-20 6:50

I did a bit of that some years ago spending time on Manitoulin island followed by ferry to Tobermory (in fog in June!), a quick trip to Niagara before a final night in Toronto and home. A brilliant province to explore.

Chris Maunder20-Jul-20 7:22

20-Jul-20 7:22

Yeah - we skipped Manitoulin due to time constraints but the whole area from there and up is stunning.

I think I've seen enough of Toronto though. I would definitely love to but a final line through that particular item Wink | ;)

cheers
Chris Maunder