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Maximilien wrote: I'm more afraid of mass hysteria.
What have you got against Green Day[^]? 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Why would I want to stock up on Corona virus? I want to avoid getting ill. 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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I'm writing from northern Italy, near the epicenter of the "red zone".
All the shops are well stocked and there is no need to stock up.
I fear mostly the mass hysteria due to the fake news that populates the social networks
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Most of the Australian shortages were cased (according to the news) by Australians buying in bulk in case there was a shortage ... 
Nope. I bought TP yesterday, yes - but only because we were down to the last roll and I always buy 12-packs anyway.
I have heard that CORVID-19 is going to cause a worldwide shortage of iPhones, so you'd probably better get out there and stock up a couple of dozen ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: a worldwide shortage of iPhones
I don't see the problem  .
Software Zen: delete this;
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Quote: I don't see the problem
Nor do I 
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I'm not planning to survive the outbreak if it occurs.
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Cp-Coder wrote: Australia are running out of commodities like toilet paper.
The result of a self-fulfilling prophesy that it will be running out so by in excess and thus cause it to run out.
In the US, every time there's the possibility of a big storm of some kind the hyped weather reporting (it's always the biggest or worst in some way) cause food hoarding. It wasn't always so - I guess people are (1) obeying their masters (i.e., cell phones) and be (2) are getting stupider by the day.
You can be proud to know you have personally contributed to the problem!
P.S.: I bought four pounds of brown lentils (dry) yesterday . . . they were on sale for US$1 each.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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That's per pound, not per lentil, right?
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I don't know what it's like everywhere else in the world, but, so far as I know, we don't sell lentils (or rice or corn or similar commodities) by the each in the US.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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A missed opportunity. 
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Quote: You can be proud to know you have personally contributed to the problem!
Twice I have seen what mass hysteria can do when we were close to the path of hurricanes and you could not find a bottle of water in the stores. I don't fear the virus, but mass hysteria concerns me. So I contribute to the problem? All I have to say is: TOUGH! 
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I am stocking up on several cases of Corona Cerveza
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Preppers have given a bad name to common sense preparations.
I sure have got a pile of canned food in my basement. Dries soup, too. In my freezer are a couple turkeys ready for baking, and a fair amount of meat. My kitchen cupboards holds about ten kilograms of various flours. I've got a couple kilograms of dried pasta.
Why should the corona virus change this? I always have a stock of dried, canned and frozen food. Similarly, whenever I open my second-to-last tube of toothpaste, I buy four or six new ones on my next buying round. When I open the second-to-last 8-pack of toilet paper, I buy a few more 8-packs. That is just one of my habits.
In a crisis, I might run out of, say, tomato soup so that I will have to eat other soups. I might run out of chicken so I have to eat turkey. But there will be something to eat for several weeks.
I must admit that I do not have a sufficient stock of drinking water. If some poisonous substance gets into the drinking water (and needd for preparing dried foods, bake my bread etc.) I may run into some problems (but I do have the plans ready to remedy that). I should stock up on more drink that can be stored for some time. Maybe I should get a few cases of Corona. Usually, I drink more hoppy beers, but I renewed my familiarity with Corona a couple days ago (it is years since last time I drank it), and I was positively surprised. Great as lighter, fresher alternative.
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Interesting.
While I appreciate your stance...isn't this rather moot in the case of a flood or fire?...which to me seem like a much more likely event...
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Maybe, but a fire affects only you, well usually.
Or at least not more than a flood would do. Which still would be quite localized and for certain would not affecting the general availability of food and other necessities.
For a general breakdown of society two weeks isn't enough anyway.
But for the case of a temporary breakdown, those two weeks are just exactly what might make a difference.
BTW, I'm on the same stance as 7989122 on this.
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I wasn't necessarily talking about lack of general availability...but the idea that stocking up is somewhat pointless if it's all at risk of a fire or flood. If you're more likely to be hit by that, then you might as well just "restock" as most people do.
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dandy72 wrote: While I appreciate your stance...isn't this rather moot in the case of a flood or fire?...which to me seem like a much more likely event...
I am not stocking food for prepping as such. I like to have alternatives available, looking over the shelves: What do I want to make today? If I have visitors I do not have to run to the store; I've got enough in house. That it would be helpful in case of a supply shortage is just an additional benefit.
Also, if I for a few months have less income or extra large expenses, I need not spend any money on neither toilet paper, food, propane, shampoo nor other household things. (Actually, that was what many years ago gave me the habit of stocking up: I had rather irregular income, so when I had the money, I spent them on protecting myself against suffering during less profitable periods.)
Around here, a flood is unlikely to affect this house itself. I have actually considered it: I made myself a private "risk analysis" a while ago. My garden would only get flood water from rainfall on a single neighbour lot of about 1500 square meters, any other water would flow away from me, 70 m down to the sea level (if the sea rises by 70 m, we have lost the game in any case  ). Yet, I have taken precautions for handling a flush of rainwater from my neighbour.
Fire is always a danger, but I think we are well off in this country: You are by law required to have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers on every floor of your house. You are not required to have a fire hose, but if you do, all insurance companies give you a discount (I currently don't have any, but will have it installed on both floors this summer). We do not use much propane or LNG here, but if you do, the safety requirements for the installation, and the restriction on gas storage, are rather strict. We have strict requirements for fire escape from any room used for "lasting activities", with extra requirements for bedrooms. We have an awareness about it: I've got fire blankets directly available on both floors. For handling smaller incidents such as sparks from the open fireplace, candles tipping over or burns in the kitchen (which isn't a fire, but related), I have placed about eight spray bottles, mostly half liter, a couple of one liter, at suitable places such as by the fireplace, by the kitchen stove, bedside, ... A liter of water cannot stop a fire, but sprayed as fine droplets, it may curb the flames enough to get yourself to a safe place.
Closer to the corona virus is the risk of a power outage. In north Norway, a few years ago during a period of extreme cold (fourty to fifty below zero both on the F and C scale) there was a great risk of a total breakdown of the electric power supply. When the local sherrif was asked what would be the result of a breakdown, he stoically remarked that it would cause the indoor temperature to become significantly closer to the outdoor temperature... In the Norwegian "outback", you must be prepared for power outages of many hours - in the worst cases, for a week.
We traditionally used electric heating a lot. That has changed somewhat, but a heat pump still needs some electricity. I was replacing my kitchen stove with an induction/propane combo, but luckily discovered in time that the propane part had a safety mechanism that would shut down the gas supply if there was no electricity to drive it! (I found another model that could be operated during power outages.
For heating, I have bought myself a couple semi-portable propane heaters. I love my open fireplace; closing its cast iron doors makes it less cosy, but far more efficient as a heater, independent of any electricity. The heat pump normally supplies hot water at about 45 (pumping it higher is less efficient), and I have a propane after-heater that can rise it to 85 C when needed - and in a power outage I can still have at least a lukewarm shower.
This summer I will make another multi-purpose preparation: The potential loss of, or restrictions on use of, water is one of my serious concerns. Most summers we have periods when you are forbidden to water your vegetable garden. The last few years we have had rain showers that could wash all the soil away from your garden. So I will channel the rain water from all my roofs into a five thousand liters cistern. That will reduce "the local flood", it will give me water for my vegetable garden during draughts, and in emergency cases it can be used as drinking water after filtering and boiling. Drinking water is actually quite expensive, so even when there is not a draught in foresight, I will be using it for watering the food plants in my greenhouse, rather than using drinking quality water.
I rarely if ever spend money on catastrophe preparations only; I am certainly not a Prepper (with a capital P). Yet I realize that my preparations for unexpected guests, unexpected economic hardships, against power outages, water outages, ... also prepares me well for "catastrophes" like corona (if it qualifies as such) and a lot else. I really don't understand those people who one hundred percent base their lives on "society" providing all that is needed for the next day, the next week or the next month.
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Member 7989122 wrote: Around here, a flood is unlikely to affect this house itself
Never be so sure. My folks are nowhere near any body of water or have any place on their property where water accumulates, yet they had a flood in the basement one spring a few years ago because the sump pump decided not to kick in as it was raining for a few days...compounded with warm temperatures and melting snow.
Member 7989122 wrote: You are by law required to have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers on every floor of your house
...neither of which is particularly useful when you're away from the house.
I understand what you're saying, and frankly if I simply had the room I'd probably be the type, myself, to keep months worth of everyday supplies on hand.
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dandy72 wrote: Member 7989122 wrote: Around here, a flood is unlikely to affect this house itself
Never be so sure. My folks are nowhere near any body of water or have any place on their property where water accumulates, yet they had a flood in the basement one spring a few years ago because the sump pump decided not to kick in as it was raining for a few days...compounded with warm temperatures and melting snow.
If you live on a mountain top with hillsides down on all sides to the plain hundred meters below, it must rain continously for fourty days (or more) to make a flood. And all the animals of the world with gather in your garden.
My house is not located quite like that, but the landscape falls off to the south and east to the ocean 70 meters below. There is no way that my garden could be set under water unless the ocean rises 70 meters, or an earthquake lowers the surface that much. To the nort-west there is a 3.5 m noise embarkment that would force the water down the highway in the direction of the ocean. The only risk remaining is that a flood of (running) water coming from the north-east could wash all my soil away. There is even a hillside in that direction. But on the other side of my neighbour to the NE, there is a wide bike/pedstrian underpass under the highway. That will catch all the water from higher up, lead it through the underpass and down to the sea. The only water that could wash away my soil is that falling on my neighbour's lot (and on my own).
For my new garage (to be built this summer), there will be outdoors stairs down to its basement; that will collect snow which when melting will flow into the garage basement. It is prepared for that: The ceiling has an opening so I can flush the salt away from the underbody after driving the winter streets (in this town, they are using unbelievable amounts of salt to get rid of the ice, which is just terrible for steel). So there will be draining chute running across the floor from one wall to the other. Of course its capacity is not big enough for the Niagara falls, but it doesn't have to be, even though this is also where the water from my neighbour might end up. Since the floor might get sprayed when I flush the car, I can't have anything sitting on the floor that cannot take water.
So I dare say that I have thoroughly evaluated the risks, and the risk of a flood is minimal. As you point out, there may be other locations where the risks are much higher (including in this town), but that cannot be transferred to my place.
...neither of which is particularly useful when you're away from the house. It is sort of useful to save your life, though ... The majority of fires in private homes are caused by human activity - I just read statistics telling that 71% of all home fires start in the kitchen. Those fires do not start spontaneously with nothing igniting them. There are people present, and the earlier they are warned, the better.
A major part of the remaining fires (as well as a fair share of those in the kitchen) are related to electric installations. Norway may have the worlds strictest regulations on electric installations. Respecting those regulations, not trying to make your own McGyver solutions. Leave it to professionals. Most of the fires are caused by "illegal" installation. True enough: They may have been legal at the time they were installed, and you are not required to update, but they are not according to the current requirements for new installation. So keeping your AC installation up to modern standards is a good way to reduce the risk of a fire. The number of fires, and in particular the number of deths due to fires, have been continously falling for many years in this country, and will probably continue to fall as installations are updated, and as LED takes over for classical glowing hot light bulbs.
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We will build a new house in mid term future and I already had some of the ideas you have said. Other ones, I have to say I didn't think of them. So thank you for the very nice and reasoned explanation.
I don't know if you have thought about it but (as I suppose solar energy is not that reliable in that latitudes) there are "mini" wind generators that in extrem emergency could be mechanically coupled to a bike to generate some electricity. Combined with a good battery for storage could give you from some minutes to a couple of hours functionality for some electrical devices each day.
I have though on using a mix of 3 different technologies (earth warm, solar and wind) in the next house, mainly to be a bit independant of the main stream and to be backed up in case of necessity.
Combined with good isolation and a wood oven you have the cold more or less covered.
I usually have 4x5L gas bottles, one for the gas barbeque, one to cook paellas, one to burn pest plants and one spare bottle. So cooking without electricity is covered for some time too.
If I go for a subterraneous tank (which I think I will do anyways) manual pump in the water tank or a bucket and a rope, just in case there is no electricity.
Maybe another smaller one in high to just use gravity in the garden?
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Wind generators are less suitable around here, both because of possible noise, and less favorable wind condition.
I recently bought (not yet mounted) six 300W solar panels that will charge a 24V battery bank proividing LED light all over the house (replacing practically all AC based light), as well as a number of medium capacity ventilation fans. During a couple winter months, especially when the panels are covered by snow, they will not provide enough power, so the batteries are kept charged from the power grid by a unit that also provides UPC for my PC. And for my internet fiber connection - I asked my IPC about their provisions in case of power breakdown, and I was honestly impressed by their switft and complete answer.
For keeping my house warm: I "happened to" end up with a spare basement room of about 25 cubic meters, suitable for being filled with water. One cubic meter of water, raised in temperature by 1 degree Celsius, holds roughly 1 kWh of heat. So 25 cubic meters raised by 40 C holds 1000 kWh. Using the heat pump as a drain, I make that that temperature range run from 40C to 0C. If I need more: By freezing the water; I can in principle pull out anothter 2000 kWh before I have 25 cubic meters of solic ice...
The heat source for this water tank is a set of thermal solar collectors, providing at least four times as much energy for the same collector area as solar cells. They "recharge" my water tank continously throughout the winter when there is a sunny day. The cooler my water tank is, the higher the efficiency. When the tank is close to freezing, any heat from the thermal solar collectors above that temperature (and that doesn't take much) contribute to keep the water tank warm, making conditions very favorable for the heat pump. The thermal collectors are angeled at 60 degrees vertically, so generally, the snow runs off them.
The heat pump also has a ground collector for use if the water tank is close to freezing, roughly 400 square meters at a depth of 1 to 3 meters. I do not yet have any experience to tell when heat collection should switch from tank heat to ground heat or vice versa. I guess it depends a lot on the thermal conductivity of the ground and on the insulaton of the water tank.
The heat pump does rely on electricity. For shorter breaks, up to a few hours, this is not a problem: An accumulator tank in floor circuit has enough heat to keep the house heated for quite a few hours. Throughout fall, and from early in spring, the thermal solar collectors will heat the accumulator tank directly, in case of a power fallout. The circulation pumps of the floor circuits are run from the solar powered battery bank.
Some people think I am going too far ...
In this country, trying to be permanently off-grid makes you a Prepper, in the slightly negative sense. Creating your one-household power grid doesn't really make sense. Preparing yourself for a week without community supplied power makes a lot more sense.
Sidetrack (or is it?):
A few years ago, I became frustrated because I couldn't fix my car myself but had to run to others for help. Then I started thinking of all the other things that I couldn't handle myself... Quite a lot, really! For myself, I created at literally world, my own novel, of how it would look like if I had to manage on my own, all those who "knew" was killed by a virus. I imagined a situation where the only survivors were myself and a few kids. How would I maange? ... After developing this epic, considering all the consequences, I shake my heat at practically all "preppers": Too bad for you, but what you are doing has next to no value in a long term perspective.
You should grade your preparations: Some are for handling a shortage of your favorite peanut butter at the grocery store Some are for a two hour power shortage. Some are for your gas supplier going bankrupt so he can't fill your tank. ... and so on. It is all up to you. The scale goes all the way up to those who become prepper heroes on national TV.
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Thank you for the explanation. I didn't consider the heat pump like this. Although I don't think is so much suitable here as it is at your place. Although we are cold, we are not so cold as you (by far).
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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