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GKP1992 wrote: In short, the work does not demand the same level of expertise it once did.
Never say that out loud! HR and or management will hear then ALL our salaries will be in jeopardy!
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Yeah, but then these are the people who don’t change the default password on a database or something else equally dangerous. I hate to think off all my personal financial, tax and medical data that’s out there in the hands of people who can’t figure out how to put a checkbox on a form.
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Sounds like they skipped the first day of training: How to Google stuff.
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is it any wonder they're trying to develop AI to do that job
Message Signature
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I would not say dumb... I think it is just plain laziness.
Why do I have to search for something and learn it by myself, if someone can tell me what to do every time?
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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OriginalGriff wrote: a web developer who says he has no idea how to use cookies or the session but is developing a "five pages of user input web app"; and an intern who wants a video to show him how to put checkboxes on a panel
Lemme guess: the intern is studying for a degree, and the first guy already has one.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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SAY,I SAY, I SAY HEY BOY!!! LOOK! YOU'RE DOING IT ALL WRONG!!!!
Those who came before us were digging it round when it ought to have been square. Those who came after us are just plain dumb.
I think those of us that belong to the middle-aged spread did have a big advantage over the young squabs, though, through knowing actual languages rather than frameworks-du-jour.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. - Mark Twain
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And I thought it was just me.
... Telling the same people time and time again the same errors in their ways.
... And the people who just don't know how to use the editor to post in code.
I don't think I'm getting that much crankier in my old age
Director of Transmogrification Services
Shinobi of Query Language
Master of Yoda Conditional
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It's a generic problem. God knows I'm not a brilliant developer - there are many many better than me out there, and I encounter them all the time 8(
Yet I see the same kind of mistakes I made when writing my very first pieces of code or web sites still cropping up on pages released into production by teams who claim to be agile, to be doing both TDD and extensive user testing etc. All of which tells me that, as is so common, the process has become more important than either it's correct application or its output.
(Are you listening GOV.UK?!)
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You can't possibly mean to imply that letting everyone be a developer is a bad thing can you?
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Can't help myself but I need to know more about the interns request. Checkboxs on a panel? html? is panel some framework component which is likly some div hell?
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Nope, just a WinForms panel: Drop one on your form, drop checkboxes on it from the toolbox ... 
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: Is it my imagination or are they getting dumber and dumber?
It's mostly your imagination.
People who shouldn't be in IT have been around since before I joined the club. In the 90's a lot of folks jumped on the IT bandwagon for the salary. The ones that "got it" stayed, the ones that didn't found other careers.
The oddities I've experienced include:- Taught one guy how to write COBOL. He had 5 years experience but didn't know how to do a loop -- not just in COBOL, but in general. [I've never compiled a single line of COBOL so me teaching COBOL is an oxymoron.]
- A guy who pasted snippets of C++ together and couldn't understand why his program wouldn't compile.
- A friend tech interviewed a programming instructor at the local technical school -- she failed the interview, had no idea how to write a functional program.
This problem has been around since the beginning of mankind. However, it may be that the current crop of IT incompetents is less successful in hiding it than previous generations.
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It's possible, but ...
I had one last week who copied and pasted his homework question into a .C file and expected it to compile and run as C code. For some strange reason the C compiler gave him loads of errors and he couldn't understand why. 
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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You win the Stupid Co-Worker Contest!
For years I've said that anytime anyone makes something foolproof, someone else makes a better fool. This is proven true, time after time ...
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Ah ... but demand for "web developers" is apparently increasing. A new branch of chaos theory I suppose.
"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then".
― Blaise Pascal
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Well, I have seen an HR strategy where more developers do the work faster. So, it is not a quality problem, but quantity. And since not many graduate from universities (we are small country), they have boot camps - 3 months and you become a developer.
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What? I thought eating a cookie was an instinctive class!
Intro first, I've been "around" programming forever; but recently completed a degree. Perhaps that provides a useful viewpoint.
My observation: Schools are trying to touch on every subject, leaving time to go in depth on none of them. I suspect this is coming from the recruitment process having 20+ item lists of required skills, in an even more impossible number of combinations.
I've successfully coded many moderate-level projects over the years, and "learned" my way thru every one. That said, the degree I've recently completed taught me very little new material that I couldn't have Googled in two seconds (ref. to development); except maybe some style conventions. On how many different platforms do I need to know how to say "Hello World?" I do know some higher-levels, but I learned them partly in classes many years ago, and from independent research since then. And no, I don't recall cookies being included in any of my classes - but they certainly should have been!
My solution: Schools need to pick one or two pathways (language, platform, whatever) and focus on it/them into advanced levels. It's not the platform or language that is important, it's the concepts (granted, that's much harder for HR to access). Throw in some translation/conversion skills, and you'll not only have advanced skill sets, but also candidates prepared for the next 1000 platforms that come out during a students career. That can only happen if the industry leaders change their recruitment strategies. The colleges are simply trying to follow job demands.
I realize this all varies from college to college, and perhaps mine isn't big on development, but I suspect there is commonality regardless.
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old stuff... but it should be reposted every couple of months... since the risks are nothing but increasing.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I can't view the page (medium.com doesn't follow European law), but I'm betting that it's an "attack" that only works with people who foolishly allow browsers' autofill routines to fill in data that they shouldn't allow them to fill in.
So the solution to the problem ain't hard.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Nope... it is an attack based on "devs" laziness and liking shiny add-ons / npm packages.
It is really worth to read it.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Yeah, well, some of us are forced to use it. Not the point.
Has anyone outside of my little corner of the working world ever come across a glitch when browsing that makes IE go into continuous refresh? Meaning the page never renders completely before starting all over again. And it does it so quickly that you'd be extremely lucky to get a click in edgewise to open a new tab, or even bring up Task Manager to kill the whole thing?
Just trying to see if it's a generic IE thing, a configuration snafu here, or what.
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I'm getting the same thing with Edge, occasionally. It seems to be linked to the page loading from cache and then refreshing for new content - or, more likely, new ads.
When you find a solution, let me know. 
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Sounds like a cache issue.
Try hitting Ctrl+F5, to refresh the page from the server (not the cache + whatever's new on the server), or clearing your cache (which might be necessary if it's caused by third-party embedded data).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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