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Eddy Vluggen4-Dec-17 1:19

4-Dec-17 1:19

Look for the ballad of John Henry to explain what will happen; it is not like the worker will get more spare time - but for the first time in history, they'll be redundant completely.

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Munchies_Matt4-Dec-17 1:54

4-Dec-17 1:54

Yes, that is what I said. Redundant completely. Did you not understand?

Eddy Vluggen4-Dec-17 3:23

4-Dec-17 3:23

No, just confused.

Munchies_Matt wrote:
Many people would therefore lead a life of leisure, maintained by the state.

I seriously doubt that.

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Munchies_Matt4-Dec-17 5:29

4-Dec-17 5:29

They would have to be, and can be, on the income generated by the robots.

Eddy Vluggen4-Dec-17 5:33

4-Dec-17 5:33

"Have to"? How much income does a steam-engine generate?

It'll mean a lot of people becoming redundant and thus, dying of starvation.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

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Munchies_Matt4-Dec-17 5:34

4-Dec-17 5:34

Depends on how much it is taxed.

You did read what I wrote didnt you?

Eddy Vluggen4-Dec-17 5:38

4-Dec-17 5:38

I read it, and dismiss it as wishfull thinking. How much is a steam-engine taxed?

The automation already endangered many profession. How much is a spread-sheet taxed? It won't happen; our production has climbed, and so have profits. Don't expect a break soon.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

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Munchies_Matt4-Dec-17 5:42

4-Dec-17 5:42

If we are going to automate, and we will, because we have started already, then in order to halt a revoloution by the staving unemployed masses they will have to be paid, the revenue for whichi will come from taxing the robots as if they were workers

So, worker 1 gets 100 euros a day, and pays 30 in tax to the govt.
A robot, works three shifts, and gets 100 euros a day. 30 goes to the govt, 70 to the employer (he actually just keeps the robots wages), This pays for the robots.

The robot is producing 3 times as many goods though, so their price falls, thus making it cheaper for the ex worker to live on the 30 euros of tax the govt now gives him to sit around and do nothing.

Eddy Vluggen4-Dec-17 5:50

4-Dec-17 5:50

Munchies_Matt wrote:
in order to halt a revoloution by the staving unemployed masses they will have to be paid

Suddenly you sound like a communist.

The unemployed masses may learn a new trade, and try to become productive members again. Non-productive members are not required on the planet.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

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Munchies_Matt5-Dec-17 3:22

5-Dec-17 3:22

No, a realist. If you keep the peasants fed and watered they are a content bunch.

Eddy Vluggen5-Dec-17 3:36

5-Dec-17 3:36

Munchies_Matt wrote:
No, a realist. If you keep the peasants fed and watered they are a content bunch.

Again, I already mentioned that Maslow disagrees; the pyramid is also nothing new, and I'm not going to discuss its validity. Just pointing out that food and drinks is not enough.

..if they were, America would have lots of content people. No one would complain about not having internet, when given bread and water.

And did you seriously expect to be fed? Why? We already have cuter pets Smile | :)

If you're superfluous, you can try to fend for yourself, as always was the case in history.

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Munchies_Matt5-Dec-17 3:57

5-Dec-17 3:57

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
food and drinks is not enough.

Isnt it?

It is for me. The four 'f's. Food, family, friends, and f***ing. Thats all a peasant needs (and me too. Smile | :)

)

Eddy Vluggen5-Dec-17 5:17

5-Dec-17 5:17

Munchies_Matt wrote:
It is for me.

Psychology disagrees; lock up a person with family and friends, give them food. Lets see how long you want to remain there in that Utopia Smile | :)

Munchies_Matt wrote:
Thats all a peasant needs

"Did the Lord say that machines ought to take the place of the living; then what is the substitute for bread and beans? Do engines get rewarded, for their steam?"

Yes, the owner of the steam-engine will have the engine pay taxes, so you can laze about and do nothing. And we'll all live happily ever after Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

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Munchies_Matt5-Dec-17 5:21

5-Dec-17 5:21

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Yes, the owner of the steam-engine will have the engine pay taxes, so you can laze about and do nothing. And we'll all live happily ever after

Precisely.

Eddy Vluggen5-Dec-17 5:27

5-Dec-17 5:27

Looks like an awfull lot of people are going to be awfully dissappointed Laugh | :laugh:

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Munchies_Matt5-Dec-17 5:28

5-Dec-17 5:28

Look at the change since the 18th century.

Mechanisation = wealth for all.

Why wont that trend continue?

Eddy Vluggen5-Dec-17 5:43

5-Dec-17 5:43

Munchies_Matt wrote:
Why wont that trend continue?

I'm saying that the trend will continue; with no new income-taxes on property. And this "wealth for all" might not be so very inclusive at that point in the future, just as it is not now. Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

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Munchies_Matt5-Dec-17 5:45

5-Dec-17 5:45

Compared to the 17th century it is inclusive now.

Eddy Vluggen5-Dec-17 5:53

5-Dec-17 5:53

Only for a small part of the world; other parts still know slavery, so we can remain "inclusive" in our small part.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

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Munchies_Matt5-Dec-17 21:44

5-Dec-17 21:44

We arent talking about slavery, we are talking about technology and its impact on wealth and lifestyle.

It is inclusive. Even those in the poorest parts of the world still benefit from technology, and it makes their lives easier. From a diesel pump in rural india, to a fridge in vietnam.

Do try to stay on topic Eddy, it makes debating so difficult when you dont.

Eddy Vluggen6-Dec-17 0:52

6-Dec-17 0:52

Munchies_Matt wrote:
Do try to stay on topic Eddy, it makes debating so difficult when you dont.

So we're not talking about slavery? Damn, misleading title you have there $Shucks | :-\$

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

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BillWoodruff4-Dec-17 1:20

BillWoodruff

4-Dec-17 1:20

Munchies_Matt wrote:
So we all effectively live like a plantation owner of the past, off the backs of the labour of slaves, just metal in this case, and free of the moral implications.

The past ?

«While I complain of being able to see only a shadow of the past, I may be insensitive to reality as it is now, since I'm not at a stage of development where I'm capable of seeing it.» Claude Levi-Strauss (Tristes Tropiques, 1955)

kalberts5-Dec-17 0:34

kalberts

5-Dec-17 0:34

The golden suits in the first "The Yes Men" movie are still worth a good laugh ... with a bitter aftertaste.

ZurdoDev4-Dec-17 1:27

ZurdoDev

4-Dec-17 1:27

Munchies_Matt wrote:
doctors

A lot of what doctors do can be replaced by robots now.

Munchies_Matt wrote:
lawyers

Unfortunately, they will always be around because our laws are too convoluted.

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Munchies_Matt4-Dec-17 1:56