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That's tomorrow's problem. Today it's champagne, cigars and a large cash withdrawl! 
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Offshoring is a relative term. If I sent work to your country, I'd be offshoring.
We used a group from India before and had very good results. You have to find the right people to work with.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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You got lucky. I have heard many stories saying otherwise, and seen the same myself.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: You got lucky.
Possibly. We managed it quite well though.
Munchies_Matt wrote: I have heard many stories saying otherwise, and seen the same myself
Yes, me too.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Did you manage the workers directly at all?
I think when done this way it goes better.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Did you manage the workers directly at all?
Yes. And we had a phone call everyday and followed the parts of SCRUM that I liked. I also gave them very clear design specifications. They did a really good job. I think you need to set standards and move on if they can't meet them. Just like you would if you hired a developer.
I think it is funny in a worldwide website for most people to complain about offshoring. Like I said, you would be offshoring to me and I to you. So,all offshoring can't be that bad. 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Ah, yes, when managed this closely, and managed by westerners, they do better.
I think it is cultural. Not many cultures find it easy to say to a manager/customer 'no, it cant be done' or 'that is impossible'. 'Problem management'. Instead of facing up to problems they pretend they dont exist, then the day before delivery....
Managed directly this cultural issue goes away (because you are doing the 'problem management') but it can be very difficult to extract a direct answer from an Indian. Did you find this too? That you have to ask again and again until you eventually get to the bottom of an issue, or an answer?
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Did you find this too? That you have to ask again and again until you eventually get to the bottom of an issue, or an answer?
With the first group we had, yes. We then asked for others and got some really good developers.
Many people were looking to save money and India stepped up and made that an option, and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: and then people found out it really did not save money in the end.
So the process went well, but you didnt actually end up saving any money? 
Did you work out why?
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Munchies_Matt wrote: but you didnt actually end up saving any money?
Oh, no, we did. I'm saying that in general, it has not worked out for most people. I was agreeing with your original statement as a general statement.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Ah, OK.
I think part of the drive to offshore these days is also the sheer lack of skills in the west. This has been solved to a large degree by massive immigration of IT workers into Canada and the US (in Europe many have come from Eastern Europe by the way (and they are actually good engineers, cultural very similar and easy to work with)) but not entirely, and the demand for IT has become so huge in the west that in fact offshoring hasnt made as big an impact on the jobs market as might have been expected. In fact sometimes it is beneficial as an expert is often needed at the end to come in and clean up the mess.
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Interesting: I have managed offshore teams in India and what I found was that I had to spend a disproportionate amount of my time on video/voice calls hand-holding and instructing; things I do not have to do with locally sourced teams (even with working from home becoming the norm).
I also managed a team some years ago that was split between the US and the UK - no problems at all.
The problem is really one of relationships (and time zones) - when I have met and got to know team members face-to-face the issues generally diminish; this worked really well at one company where each of the offshore team members spent a month in the home office.
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Got home last night at 2330 local time (Zürich) a very tired, sweaty and annoyed man after leaving Dublin at 0900 local on Sunday. BA need their butts kicked. When are we going to stop tolerating these crappy practices from people who are supposed to be leaders in our economies? feeling very anarchic right now.
One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know.
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You should have driven! 
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Are pretzels really knot bread?
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Rye wouldn't they be?
... such stuff as dreams are made on
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He used his loaf!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Clearly he's on a roll!
/ravi
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That's twisted! 
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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I take that with some grains of salt.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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As its my turn are we doing one today ?
We can’t stop here, this is bat country - Hunter S Thompson RIP
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I think today is a holiday in the UK, but not generally.
Dealers choice, I guess - today or tomorrow is up to you. 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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