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I felt the same way being a C++ / MFC / WinForms developer who then moved to C# winforms for a long time.
I then migrated to ASP.NET (classic not MVC) and though it did offer some nice OOP layer over the top of ASP badness it wasn't great. (PageController was limited).
Now, MVC is very very good and as soon as you learn the various layers (Views via Razor Engine, Controller power and true separation) you will love it.
Insert Gratuitous Self-Promotion Here
I've written a couple of very beginning articles (at CP) on MVC via Visual Studio just last month.
Maybe you'll enjoy them:
ASP.NET MVC : Build Your Custom Blog Engine (CMS) - Part 1 of 2(Own ASP.NET MVC)[^]
Good luck.
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What gets me down is the amount of Javascript that needs to be written. Maybe it will get better with experience, but developing a web app takes me much longer than a Windows WPF app.
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I would suggest to try using some framework like AngularJS to aid you. It reduces the bunch of HTML /JS you need to write and it works well with MVC..
Thanks,
Milind
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I used it on my site and it is a breathe of fresh air, but it definitely is a new way of doing things.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.2.2 Beta tomorrow (noun): a mystical land where 99% of all human productivity, motivation and achievement is stored.
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I have developed many, many sites using WebForms. And a few using MVC. They're just tools. Pick the one you're comfortable with and ignore all the hype.
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R. Giskard Reventlov wrote: They're just tools. Pick the one you're comfortable with and ignore all the hype.
I agree with you 100%.
There is sooooooooo much hype with all this stuff you can barely see through the fog to get to the learning / using part. AngularJS, Bootstrap, Backbone, Razor, YAJL (YetAnotherJavaScript Library), CSS, ad infinitum.
Use the one that let's you build fast and extend easily. 
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raddevus wrote: ad infinitum
Can you provide a link to this new library? 
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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MVC is great. ASP.NET MVC is bloated, but still pretty cool.
At the end of the day it's still web and requires HTML, CSS, and JavaScript which pretty much sucks.
HTML and CSS just does not work (in all browsers).
I'm starting to get used to JavaScript (I might even start to like it a bit).
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Sander Rossel wrote: CSS just does not work (in all browsers)
agree. all kinds of annoying things you have to tweak.
Bootstrap?
Have you tried using the Bootstrap stuff?
Most of it is quite nice.
Some stuff is still annoying but a lot of it just works and it feels like having old winforms controls (that you didn't have to draw yourself) available to you.
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I've tried Bootstrap once, very nice indeed.
Unfortunately we're not using it on my current project at work.
I'm regularly praising WinForms at work!
I started out in WinForms at another company. Used it for four years or so.
My current company used to use Delphi for client applications.
Nowadays we only do web.
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MehGerbil wrote: So am I in the honeymoon phase here or is MVC really that much of an improvement?
Definitely honeymoon. Me, I took one look at her and decided immediately that I didn't want to go through a painful divorce later on.
That said, you make your choice, love the great things and learn to live with the not so great things. 
Marc
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I've used it for a few years now (well, prior versions of it). Had a good bit of fun while doing it, but then I moved on to not only embracing the stateless nature of the web but embracing the document centric nature of the web.
Now my servers only do 3 things: 1 - serve data, 2 - provide business services, and 3 - serve static documents. I don't bother building the UI on servers anymore, I leave the UI where it belongs: on the client.
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Vark111 wrote: my servers only do 3 things: 1 - serve data, 2 - provide business services, and 3 - serve static documents.
That's a great summary of the way things should be.
Great comment.
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I'm shocked, shocked I say at how unstable IE 11 is on Windows 10.
In the history of my use of the internet I've never had a more unstable browsing experience.
My IE 11 locks up, randomly shuts down, chokes, pukes, vomits and stumbles its way through web pages in slow motion. It does this on both of my machines even after a fresh build. It is absolutely ridiculous.
BTW, I don't blame IE 11 completely - I don't know who has been polluting every single web page with tons of ads but it is to the point where on most news sites it is impossible to read an article with the way stuff skips around as new elements are loaded. Usually one of them fails, locking up the page, so I have to reload the page and scroll down a bit before the inevitable freeze.
Also, I've noticed videos are appearing with no shut off button or the button appears and doesn't work. People who create those things should be tortured to death - it is to the point where I don't visit news sites anymore. I'll just read a book.
Thanks for driving me off the internet.
Die in a fire.
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Or you could just use a proper browser like everybody else! Just saying.
I am not a number. I am a ... no, wait!
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It is hard for me to believe that IE11 could be this bad.
How can this be the worst browsing experience I've had - ever?
So part of me thinks it has to do with web pages that are trying to do too much.
I don't have issues with sites like Code Project, you know, where the ads don't completely take over the entire site.
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I've given up on Microsoft's browsers on computers. Haven't really used one unless it's to download another. Saying that, I must also point out, that it works very well on windows mobile.
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Why do you use IE on Windows 10, and not Edge?
I share your extreme dislike for pages with video adds that cannot be shut down. I just close the tab when I land on one of those - and avoid that page in future. It's extremely annoying!
Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!
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MehGerbil wrote: I don't know who has been polluting every single web page with tons of ads
And that is one of the reasons I use FireFox with NoScript and AdBlock Plus. While some websites don't work properly or at all, the content is a lot easier to read and follow which is why I was on the webpage to begin with.
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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The new motto at M$ is - "Don't worry about the foundation - just keep adding bells and whistles on the rooftop".
They need to get out of building browsers altogether - the planet cannot withstand all the carbon generated by the electricity developers use in trying to get Idiot Exercise to even come close to behaving like other browsers.
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InPrivateBrowsing makes it quicker.
If not just go back to XP. Its much better. 
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Does it?
I have my IE sessions launching with InPrivate mode by default, and I can't say I've noticed any page loading any faster. Not in any measurable way anyway.
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Depends on the web site IMO.
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IE and descendants are so irrelevant, that nobody really tests for it.
it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet.
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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Sounds a lot like IE11 (and IE10 before it) for me on W7. Works timesheet craplication doesn't work in Real Browsers (tm); and when their bluecoat firewall is barfing all over the place IE tends to suffer the least additional breakage for some reason.
To make it worse, since I normally go hours between uses, it's generally swapped out to the putridly slow spinning rust I have to use on what would otherwise be a tolerably fast laptop. 
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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