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No, just for history sake.
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You can find a copy on eBay for about $50.
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Has anybody ever worked in a development position and the people you work with actually made you hate your job or is it just me?
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Yes I hate my jobsometimes. Its when they make me do some boring and uninteresting stuff like making a documentation. I blame my boss.
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
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Yes, but you can't have fun the whole time. Some things that need doing are boring.
As long as no one gets singled out to do all the bad stuff, or all the good stuff.
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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Rob Philpott wrote: Yes, but you can't have fun the whole time.
I agree with you, but lately it seems there are developers around who don't. When I was a teenager I got a 9:00 to 9:30 job 6 days a week. Got pretty good at eating lunch in 5 minutes, napping 20, and not having to be nudged awake. That was around 4AM. Documentation? I'll be happy to do it.
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I thought development starts with writing documentation...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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In my case we started with no documentation at all only few bad written specifications. Then we wrote some of the code(around 80 %) and start changing things because the specification writers didn't think of everything carefully enough.
After we "finished" my boss told me to make documentation on how things work o.O with no requirements, no examples it was said: Make documentation with graphics.
The task was for me alone and instead of only doing documentation i also did code review and found few bugs, guess who gonna fix them.
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
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Argonia wrote: didn't think of everything carefully enough
They never do think, carefully or not!
Argonia wrote: documentation with graphics
Some 15 years ago I went with my boss to sell our new (then first time Windows based) version of our application. The problem was that we had no such application, so I spend two week with Photoshop to create some nice images to sell... 
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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I made my graphics with MSPaint 
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
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Argonia wrote: the specification writers didn't think of everything carefully enough
I was told that once by a manager when I complained that writing specifications two months before writing the program was an exercise in Fantasyland.
I told her if I was thinking it through to that much, then I was programming it, not writing specifications.
Psychosis at 10
Film at 11
Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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Yes, it does. And ends with a documentation, too.. 
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL.
I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
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Someone once told me "first make it work and THEN do the maths". Maybe that works for documentation too.
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
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Yep, last place I worked. I turned me into a right miserable, whiny bleeder, but I was reluctant to move because I was well paid and worked 5 minutes from home.
It took a job to come looking for me before I left and realised I should have done it much, much earlier.
You spend a lot of your life at work, you shouldn't spend that time being miserable if you can do anything about it.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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chriselst wrote: but I was reluctant to move because I was well paid and worked 5 minutes from home.
I call this a golden prison situation. With kids and mortgage a.s.o., the decision of changing jobs for your own better self-being is very hard to make. It would make me feel very guilty.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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Rage wrote: It would make me feel very guilty
Having a job you hate has a negative impact on your mental health, and yes, your family is negatively affected by it too.
All in all, it's all tradeoffs. Will you feel more guilty over having that better self-being job, or the golden prison one?
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Similar here. My first job out of college.
I'm just old enough that I'm on the tail end of the generation where you went to work, worked for a company for 30ish years, took a pension, and retired. Thus, it didn't occur to me that even though the job was making me miserable, it was ok to go somewhere else. I stayed at least 2 or 3 years too long.
Of course, like any situation, there's good and bad. I have some friends from there I still keep in touch with almost 20 years after I left; so, not all the people were bad.
Another thing to keep in mind is that if a place is bad for you, that doesn't necessarily make it a bad place to work. Some of the people I worked with back there are still there. Even though it became a horrible place for me to work, it's apparently working out for them.
If your co-workers/bosses/whatever tried to get you to stay, extra money/vacation/perks they offer still might not be worth it for you specifically. If you're miserable and hate to get out of bed each morning, it's just not worth the hassle. When you recognize that, time to move on.
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I think it would be better to ask if people had never worked in a place that they hated.
I've had some miserable jobs, you know when it gets serious because the end of the weekend becomes deeply depressing. I just walk at that point.
I work on a freelance basis so I think I suffer less from the fear of losing a job, it's naturally not going to be there for that much longer anyway. Some people hate their jobs but fear moving somewhere else, which I guess is natural, but very often can keep them trapped in a miserable situation.
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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Rob Philpott wrote: I think it would be better to ask if people had never worked in a place that they hated.
How would one know if they hate a job on an exact point?
I only hate development when my Senior Developer forces work on me, making me stop whatever I have to do for the Project Managers and the clients I currently have (which are quite fussy too).
I hate having tasks forced onto me at a certain point because it breaks the flow of how I work.
if (Broken)
then fix.this
else !fix.this
end-if
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I've never hated it but my first job did frustrate me sufficiently that I quit. I liked my coworkers but they weren't properly trained so it was really tough trying to get anything developed there. They also had quite strict working hours which I don't do all that well with (particularly in the weeks after the clocks going on!).
It's a good company, but it didn't work out for me there.
You can never expect everything to be perfectly fun at work, though – if something's that fun then you don't have to pay people to do it.
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Whenever we work under pressure with tight schedules,there is a my co-worker who is Functional Analyst, laughs and says "That's why I have not chosen Development."
___ ___ ___
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Yes, one time at the same place.
We had a top-notch contractor in, because he cost ££££s (which he actually earned - I've heard horror stories about countractors) they actually listened to him and he turned the outfit into a dynamic and interesting place to work. He left and the lessons weren't learned by the people making the decisions, so we went back to the moribund default state.
All it takes quite often to flip from one state to another is one person to enter or leave the team.
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It usually takes both the people and the job together for me to hate the job. If the job is great but the people aren't, I can work with that. If the people are great but the job sucks, then I find value in that. But both? Ugh. I left a job after one week recently because of that combination (mind you, two of the three people were great, but the important person, the PM, was awful, and he's the one that counted.)
Marc
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I started at a new company 3 weeks ago and I'm considering leaving. They're too busy to give me something to sink my teeth into, and not being productive makes me utterly miserable.
Even a bad project is better than being forced to try and look busy because you're new at the job 
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Ri_ wrote: Even a bad project is better than being forced to try and look busy because you're new at the job
That's one of the reasons why I left the job after a week. I was told to bill 40 hours a week. There wasn't the work to support that. I don't mind fudging a little (after all, one ends up putting in 70+ hours sometimes) but this was absolutely ridiculous.
Still, gift horse and all that. I just couldn't ethically do it though.
Marc
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