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Clearcase is for large team work. It's overkill for 5-10 teams, of course, and its price reflects it quite well already.
What you don't seem to get about Clearcase is that it has a level of abstraction that VSS-like tools don't have, like activities, and how easy it is to group a multiple file change set in a single source control object, for later use, for back-porting, merging, ... Really, for things like that, VSS falls flat.
Those activities allow one to rebase his stream regularly by keeping tracks of all changes, not blindly doing a VSS get on the top node and start praying.
That being said, some CVS extensions provide the needed abstraction I refer to and, in this regards, make Clearcase horribly pricey in comparison.
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Which CVS extensions provide this?
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And it can version directories. Which means you can go back to the exact content of a release. Can't do that in VSS or CVS
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I definitivly can NOT agree on that.
Clearcase is fantastic and the only tool that allows "UNRESERVED CHECKOUT" with "AUTOMATIC MERGING".
Let me give you an example:
- I have the sources on my notebook
- I travel some days and change some files
- In the meantime my collegue has chnaged the same files
- When I come back from my trip, CC automatically updates the changed files on the server without any operations ( Well I have to confirm for "Automtic merging")
No other tool could prived that.
We have 20.000 files under clearcase and no error or problem during the last 2 years. Working 5 developers nearly without any maintenance.
.... That is source control!
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>>- I have the sources on my notebook
irrelevant that goes for any software application
>>- I travel some days and change some files
this is reasonable
>>- In the meantime my collegue has chnaged the same files
**BUZZ** this is where we differ, the logical fallacy here is that this assumes that the files are just some silly document that has no impact on your companies success. The reality is that these are source code files that have to compile. If your buddy updates your same file and you have to merge to check in he creates work for you. As the complexity of the file goes up the harder it will be to merge. If it is a simple source code file that has very simple logic and you and he work out some sort of convention, but even then the ClearCase overhead just isn’t worth it.
>>- When I come back from my trip, CC automatically updates the changed files on the server without any operations
This is simply not true. You can however do a blind merge and hope it works but now ClearCase wont just automaticaly do your merging for you w/o fail. That’s like saying a compiler automatically converts code to binaries w/o human intervention.
I don't think clear case is all bad and you make some good points here. And if it works for you great. I just argue that it fails for most situations. Ans you also have to remember the simple fact that computer programmers by nature don't want anyone's filthy hands on their code in the first place so the whole "everyone code each other’s code in utopia" doesn’t work unless you are a dictator in a in some fascist country running a software outfit or unless you are a cunning mgr w/ various strategies to make your employees are worthless enough to stick around for the abuse.
Software engineers like other engineers need their space. The whole ClearCase concept doesn’t seem to take psychology into account.
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Perforce provides the same functionality without the maintenance costs.
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AFleischmann wrote:
>>Clearcase is fantastic and the only tool that allows "UNRESERVED CHECKOUT" with "AUTOMATIC MERGING".
CVS is based on unreserved checkout and the merging is automatic. If there is a conflict in merging the code in conflict is included in the working copy of the source so the developer can resolve the conflict without pulling put other versions (which he cant in VSS if it is locked)
Have a look at sourceforge.nt and look at how many projects are developed with thousands of developers in absolute geograhic distribution - all under CVS.. and it's free..
Signed..
One of 12 developers on 5 projects with thousands of source documents for a national company .. 
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Our project is using Razor for our version control. Does anyone else use this Thing ? (I would kill to use VSS, RCS, SCCS, something other than Razor)
liobsynde
--Wish I had something great to say here, but the good ones have already been taken...
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I use RAZOR for my Facial Hair Control System. 
Sometimes I feel like I'm a USB printer in a parallel universe.
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and i use twin blade system, for closer shave.
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3-blade from Gillete 
There is nothing new under the sun,
But there are lots of old things we don't know.
- Ambrose Bierce
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the 3rd blade is a dummy one.
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Mr.Prakash wrote:
the 3rd blade is a dummy one.
I program in such a way that... the dummy blade comes in cycle... like my first usage goes with first blade as dummy, next usage makes the second blade dummy etc.. 
There is nothing new under the sun,
But there are lots of old things we don't know.
- Ambrose Bierce
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i've heard that MS people don't use visual source safe internally. anyone know if this is true??
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They have so many projects going, and it really depends on the team and project. I know that a customized version of Perforce used to be/is quite popular over there
-Ernst
There are only 10 kinds of programmers - those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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That would be suicide!
I see dumb people
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No they do not. They use a couple of others, one being called SLM (pronounced Slime)
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I need to setup WinCVS on this machine, but we need SSH to connect to CVS server. I tried to download the application from www.ssh.com, but what I found from their ftp is a bewildering number of files and archive. I download "ssh-1.2.33.tar.gz", I decompressed it and ended up with a bunch of source files. Executable is nowhere to be found.
Any idea? Thanks guys.
Norman Fung
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Thanks, that's very helpful information. But, I still wish to find out how to download binary from www.ssh.com since all the guys from our companies are using it. I already have the binary actually, but I got it off another developer in our team. No one seems to know where they got it from in the first place.
Thanks again.
Norman Fung
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I like NGSource, it's very similar to VSS, but I don't seem to have as many issues with it.
Check it out at www.ngsource.com
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I have been using CVS via commandline, but mostly TortoiseCVS for a long time. TortoiseCVS because it integrates with Windows explorer makes version control really easy. I like its graphic models showing versions etc. I have never experienced a bug, and it is very fast.
Having said all that, I have recently switched to Subversion. The reason I switched was because my workplace had a restructure, and of course that meant the organization name changed, the department names changed etc. I use a directory structure, and filenaming convention that mirrors my namespace system... companyname.departmentName.systemName.componentName so, i had to change the content of most of my files, and the names of many of them. CVS isn't set up for this, and I could see no easy way, where I could rename the files, retain their history, and keep one branch running in production with the old names, while developing new features in the new files. With Subversion this is easily accomplished. I can't do that of course, because migration from CVS to Subversion is not easy, so I started a fresh repository with version 1. But when we have our next restructure, i can use Subversion to easily rename the files to india.bangalore.your.redundant
I will try at some point TortoiseSVN, but haven't had a chance yet.
The main down point with Subversion is it is a lot slower than CVS.
Another feature I like with Subversion is being able to store metadata with a file. The example they use is an image might be stored with its caption and a thumbnail. Being a web person, I would also store the alt text and copyright information with it.
Being in a minority of one, doesn't make you insane
George Orwell
However, in my case it does
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I use SubVersion at home but not in our team yet. TortoiseSVN works great with it and has good documentation. I had some real problems going on with vss and also source off site. Some projects didnt work at all with vss for me. (Duwamish7 ie)
Lots of good features: "Blame" the persone that wrote a part of a file, get all files at a certain date ("revision") and files are NOT write protected.
Arkh the plugin for VisualStudio doesnt work for me.
Mathias
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How do you move a file from one place to another ? if you drag n drop, link is formed? how do you move it ???
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