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Developing MFC applications from scratch has been a big pain. Wizards are useless though I like the new code model objects. I had to write a few addins to fix the problems created by the wizards.
Sometimes rebuilds fix unexpected bugs. The compiler seems to have quite a few problems with incremental links.
Managed development is not as bad though.
Somewhere in the world there is a machine language programmer waiting for that damned assembly language fad to pass. - Stan Shanon
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I can say why this happens!
Most developers use VS2003 as VB.NET or C# studio.
C++ developers still use Visual Studio 6.0 and well satisfed by it. (Who want some special processors optimizations simply buy Intel compiler which know how to replace MS compiler in studio).
One my friend say that he will wait till SP5 on VS.NET and only then will work with it!
Good Luck
Alex Kucherenko
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Alex Kucherenko wrote:
One my friend say that he will wait till SP5 on VS.NET and only then will work with it!
But I think there wont be any service packs , I think the product lifecycle might be like for every framework release there would be a corresponding vs.net release, for ex. for the .net framework v2 we have whidbey and for longhorn we have orcas etc.
But all these releases IMO would add new features to the IDE,which kinda defeats the purpose of having a stable IDE. Meanwhile vs.net 2003 was kinda sp for vs.net 2002, thats the reason its available at a throw away upgrade price.
Cheers,
Kannan
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Kannan Kalyanaraman wrote:
Alex Kucherenko wrote:
One my friend say that he will wait till SP5 on VS.NET and only then will work with it!
Kannan Kalyanaraman wrote:
But I think there wont be any service packs
that is why this make me funny... but on real it must be understand like:
I will wait till main mass of developers start work with .NET, and my BIG customer said that NET framework application needed to him.
Good Luck
Alex Kucherenko
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Alex Kucherenko wrote:
C++ developers still use Visual Studio 6.0 and well satisfed by it.
I am a C++ developer under Windows platforms, but I hate VC++6 very much. Because the compiler of VC++6 is not ISO C++ compliant. And the Standard Library (iostream library) of VC++6 version is  . It does NOT act like what it is said in MSDN document.
For ex., in MSDN:
void fstream::open(const char* szName, int nMode, int nProt = filebuf::openprot );
But when compiling, for ex.,
MyFile.open("AA.txt", std::ios::in, std::filebuf::sh_read);
error message says,
error C2039: 'sh_read' : is not a member of 'basic_filebuf...
error C2661: 'open' : no overloaded function takes 3 parameters.
A lot of sh*tty things...
BuggyMax
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Rama Krishna wrote:
Sometimes rebuilds fix unexpected bugs
This is so true, this happened atleast twice in the short period we moved to this new IDE for work. Any words on "watch for this" issues based on your experience.
Regards,
Kannan
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.....who voted "very satisfied" and speaks up?
VS.Net 2003 was so much better than the last IDE I used that only under pain of death will I revert back.
Of course, the IDE I used before this was VB6, so it's probably not a good comparison.  
God, I pity me! - Phoncible P. Bone
If I end up Windows ME someone is going to be hurting. - One of the answers to a question for What OS are you
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Nick Seng wrote:
VS.Net 2003 was so much better than the last IDE I used that only under pain of death will I revert back.
 That's how I feel. So that makes two of us who spoke up. 
Conclusion of the day, don't believe a developer, his mind is always changing.
-Stephane Rodriguez.
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Yay us!
God, I pity me! - Phoncible P. Bone
If I end up Windows ME someone is going to be hurting. - One of the answers to a question for What OS are you
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And me makes three
James
At Jethro Tull's August 28, 2003 concert Ian Anderson mentioned that the group would be performing a medley of title tracks. The songs were "Songs from the Wood", "Too Old to Rock and Roll; Too Young to Die"; and from the Heavy Horses album, "Stairway to Heaven".
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Of course, the IDE I used before this was VB6, so it's probably not a good comparison.
Yeah, VB6 was so bad and I don't think there was any need for it. It seemed to have no new features and all the bugs from VB5.
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I'm another "Very Satisfied"
Having used both VB6 and VC6 IDE's a ton, VS.NET 2003 is by far the best IDE I've ever used. It has all of the cool features they tried to do in the Visual InterDev environment but didn't quite get right.
My one major complaint with VS.NET 2003 is this:
Why oh why didn't they replace Visual SourceSafe!?!?!
don
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FYI, this[^] is a project that's aimed at creating a Windows-based source control system. It started out here on CodeProject, but it later moved off of there. My Fluid UI Toolkit project shares forums with it.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." - Jesus
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Mahatma Gandhi
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Yep, very satisfied!
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You have my sympathies
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the dreaded class view!
In a larger project, with *lots* of stuff in the class view, the updates of this view is really annoying. Edit anything in a .h-file and you'll notice it. I notice it on a 1.2 Ghz AMD with 768 MB RAM in it. It locks up the entire editor for 0.1 seconds or so. It may sound like a minor issue, but when you edit a .h file and it keeps refreshing the class view every 1-2 second, it becomes a problem!
The only workaround I know of so far is to switch to the solution/file view. That one isn't refreshed like the classview. Even if I'd buy a twice as fast computer, the editor lock would still be noticable and very annoying.
As my larger projects are only in C++, I don't know if this problem occurs with other languages as well. Has anyone else noticed this?
Another minor issue: When you create folders in the class view to logically group classes, wouldn't it be nice if you could drag items a bit faster in the class view? When you need to drag something past the end or top of the view, the scrolling is way too slow IMHO.
(Desperately hoping that someone @ microsoft reads this and fixes it - Nick, are you there? )
--
Frivolous Theorem of Arithmetic: Almost all natural numbers are very, very, very large.
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Try on a Win 9x machine and everything is OK. This is a standard prblem of Windows NT+
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We are stuck using VS.NET 2002, v1. Apparently the bugs found in in this version have not been fixed in 2003 (resource editor wackiness, in particular), and this would be our only reason to upgrade; so we'll be using the 2002 version for the forseeable future.
If MS would provide bug fixes, we might be more inclined to keep up with these upgrades.
The delivery of the promised service pack for 2002 would also help restore our faith in MS's ability to deliver quality development tools. Right now it seems their only motivation is support for their technology du jour (.NET).
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That's right. VS .net 2002 Is really a great dev-tool, but some bugs are really sucking (intelli-sense crashes weekly).
Give me a service pack and i'm happy for future!
But when i see Borland C++ Builder? Yeah, VS. net is really bugfree *g*.
Excuse my english!
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Have not got my free upgrade in my academic licensing agreement yet...
John
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I am using VS.2003 primarily because ATL7 is really very good indeed, and the new C++ compiler is closer to what you'd expect nowadays. However, as an IDE it can be very frustrating to work with - I don't like the new look and feel very much - the sliding toolbars/panes require my hand to be on the mouse more than in VS6 and, quite frankly, I wish they had left the UI alone.
There are numerous bugs - and they are annoying enough to slow me down and make me want to throw my PC out the window. For example, using a solution containing projects that share filenames (MainFrm.cpp/MainFrm.h is a classic - I have projects where adding a Windows message handler will add the prototype to the correct MainFrm.h and the function to a MainFrm.cpp from another project. Marvellous). There is also a resource editing bug that means my .rc file can end up having the #defined symbols (e.g. ID_FILE_OPEN) replaced with the numeric IDs instead. How useful. Especially as when you then hit Alt+Enter to display the dubious new "ClassWizard" in order to add a WM_COMMAND handler and you see a list of numeric IDs instead of the definition. I am having to edit my .rc files by hand on a daily basis which is wasting my time.
I also get regular crashes - again often when resource editing - something that I am not used to quite frankly as VS6 was 100% reliable (and was from day one apart from the odd MFC-ism).
MFC7 also has it's problems - try getting an MFC7 app to run on Win95 - it requires a DLL (OLEACC) that isn't present. Yeh, there's a workaround, but even so...
So on the one hand I have got a new compiler that I like and ATL7 has been enhanced no end and on the other the development environment has been messed with to the extent that I end up ranting at the screen on a daily basis.
Here's hoping for a service pack soon!
The Rob Blog
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Robert Edward Caldecott wrote:
I also get regular crashes - again often when resource editing - something that I am not used to quite frankly as VS6 was 100% reliable (and was from day one apart from the odd MFC-ism).
Doh. VS6? 100% reliable? Every tried to open a bunch of bitmap files at once? Or edit a checked in resource file (bmp, html, etc)? Edit a HTML resource, compile, run and then - well, the HTML file is readonly in the editor for no reason. And quite a few more resource editor bugs come into my mind.
Not that VS.net would be any better here...
As you already mentioned, ATL and compiler are something to go for, but the rest just sucks. Ever tried to use both on VS6 ?
Finally moved to Brazil
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I couldn't get to like the Wizards and Add-Ins in VS6 anyway and I've been coding C# quite a long time now. I don't think I've been more productive ever before. Ok, there are some flaws and sometimes anoying slow, but it does quite well overall.
Dynamic Help is actually the most useless feature ever.
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LangAl wrote:
Dynamic Help is actually the most useless feature ever.
I agree (at least, in VS.NET 2002.) The help in VS 6 was much better than it is now.
If your nose runs and your feet smell, then you're built upside down.
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