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I told them to delete all data they have on me.airbnb said: Hi Mark ,
Thank you for your email dated February 20th, 2019.
Hope this message finds you well. My name is Florencia from Airbnb team.
We understand that you would like to exercise one of your rights under the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), namely the right of erasure your data.
As a data controller, Airbnb has to verify that the person making the request is, in fact, the data subject entitled to make them. We have implemented identification and verification procedures to ensure that we do not edit, delete, or hand over personal information at the request of, or to a person impersonating a data subject.
We kindly ask you to re-send us your request and to attach a photocopy of your proof of identity.
Of course, "Florencia from Airbnb team" is probably, in reality, "big fat slob Miguel from mother's basement", but I can't be @rsed to demand certified copies of his passport and employment contract (yet).I replied: What a very "clever" and slimy demand.
How, exactly, will a photograph of me prove my identity, when you don't know what I look like?
The e-mail address that I use to log in is all the proof of who I am that you need, because it is the only thing you have that connects me to my account.
Do not try to get clever with me; it will only inspire me to take harsher action against you.
They're already in for a sh1tstorm of trouble, because my "buddy at the Ministry" agrees that the way they are coercing people to hand over their passports contravenes more than one current law.
If I might make a suggestion: don't use their services, and especially don't pay for anything through them, because it's quite likely you'll lose your money, when they shut the site down and run for mouseholes.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: They're already in for a sh1tstorm of trouble, because my "buddy at the Ministry" agrees that the way they are coercing people to hand over their passports contravenes more than one current law.
Also no guarantee that any employee doesn't go on a holiday using my credentials.
They can have a copy of the ID-card, with everything but the name blurred out, and written in large black font "airbnb 2019". It would still be a valid ID, just a bit harder to reuse it.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Consider this.
You send your ID to prove you are the person requesting to remove your data, and they duly remove your data.
But: They will need keep your request and proof to prove that it was you that requested your data be removed. Why:
- the regulator needs proof that they honored YOUR request.
- the other you asks why your data was deleted (cover their own asses)
Face it, you can not be erased.
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Lopatir wrote: the other you asks why your data was deleted (cover their own asses)
"Because I have the right to ask for that, under current laws".
They can ask what they want; how you answer is up to you.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Lopatir wrote: - the regulator needs proof that they honored YOUR request.
"We have no record of this person".
How does that not work?
The idea that they have to store a copy of my passport (on what is probably a number of eminently hackable servers) in order to delete my data goes beyond the pale.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
modified 23-Feb-19 11:24am.
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I was sort of joking but it is actually true to some extent.
Tax authorities for instance require organisations to keep full records of financial transactions for a number of years (typically 5 - 11 years) so they actually can not totally expunge all records they have. (Ideally though that would be kept separate / isolated from the day-to-day booking systems.)
But even the authority controlling privacy needs to know that requests made for personal information removal are being honored, just saying "we have no records" would not suffice, as suggested the minimal requirement would be to record the request for data removal with some means of identifying the source of that request was verified and performed. Again it should be held away from the day-to-day operational systems.
Albeit separated, some data must and will be be retained.
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I don't know what you beef is with Airbnb, but replying to someone who just does their job (whether it's lovely Florencia or big fat slob Miguel doesn't matter) ""clever"" and "slimy" and threatening with "harsher action" at their very first response makes you the a**hole here.
How about:
Hi Florencia,
I'm well, thank you, I hope you're good as well.
You're asking for a photocopy, but I don't see how that's going to help because you don't know what I look like.
I'm emailing you from this email address, which should be proof enough that I am who I am.
Please let me know when my account is deleted.
Best,
Mark That sounds so much nicer while still conveying the message.
If they keep insisting you can reply in a harsher tone and even take "harsher action" (against Airbnb, not Florencia).
Still no reason to call people slimy and "clever" though.
You're complaining about people, but to me it seems you're the problem.
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You're unaware of the full history, so your misapprehension can be excused.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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any of the new generation platform facebook and after...you are the product...for them to make money ! ..
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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I can see no honest or lawful way that they can profit by having a copy of my passport.
Plenty of criminal ways, but no honest or lawful ones.
And the way they demanded it proves their ill intent:
0. Take the money
1. Wait until the last moment
2. Tell the customer that you won't fulfill the contract unless he hands over sensitive, personal documents -- during Spring Break, when everything is booked solid!
It's slimy, evil coercion, where 99% of people would have no choice other than to accede to it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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+1 for the vid with Vince Clarke in it.
Just had a Yazoo and Depeche Mode weekend a month ago - shouldv'e included Erasure..
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I would've asked 'Florencia' for a photocopy of her(his) passport so you know who you're sending yours to.
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: I would've asked 'Florencia' for a photocopy of her(his) passport so you know who you're sending yours to.
???Mark_Wallace wrote: I can't be @rsed to demand certified copies of his passport
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Gotta fight fire with fire
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Sure, but their demand was a criminal act. If I mimick the demand, I'm trivialising their crime.
Their criminal demand cost me a lot of time and effort (when I didn't have a lot of time or energy), and resulted in my having to pay twice as much, because it's a school holiday, so everywhere's full (and that's not to mention that they still have my money).
When my "buddy from the Ministry" tells me the iron's hot enough for me to initiate a lawsuit, I don't want it thought that I see their crime as being trivial.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Quote: 2.4 User verification on the Internet is difficult and we do not assume any responsibility for the confirmation of any Member’s identity. Notwithstanding the above, for transparency and fraud prevention purposes, and as permitted by applicable laws, we may, but have no obligation to (i) ask Members to provide a form of government identification or other information or undertake additional checks designed to help verify the identities or backgrounds of Members, (ii) screen Members against third party databases or other sources and request reports from service providers, and (iii) where we have sufficient information to identify a Member, obtain reports from public records of criminal convictions or sex offender registrations or an equivalent version of background or registered sex offender checks in your local jurisdiction (if available).
As I read this (from airbnb) their demand of your personal data smells even more fishy... After all, they already removed any responsibility in case you presented fraud data...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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I know! I read that, and was astounded by the audacity of it!
This non-legal/non-governmental/completely-devoid-of-official-status web-site has gone to a lot of trouble with their wording, to hide the fact that what they're doing is forcing people to hand over their passports, then trawling every database they can find, to collect and connect every scrap of data about their customers that they can.
And, using very typical psychopathic style, they cover their @rses by saying that their customers (whom they held over barrels of screaming kids who would have to miss their trips to funfairs, etc.) have given them permission to do so, by giving in to coercion and handing over their passports.
And people wonder why I don't talk nice to them (after about 50 demands that I hand over my passport, or I'm a "bad person", who "doesn't belong in a community of trust, like airbnb", over the course of a couple of days).
Just because someone smiles at you while he punches your mother in the face and steals her purse doesn't mean you have to smile back and forego kicking him in the nuts.
It's probably like amazon, and has a total psychopath at the top. Psychopathy breeds in organizations, either through hires or "conversions" -- and psychopaths talk more pleasantly than good people, because good people talk honestly; psychopaths are always on the make.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: psychopaths talk more pleasantly than good people, because good people talk honestly; psychopaths are always on the make.
You're going to be very disappointed when you find out that only 1% of people are psychopats. The amount of people that will lie is a bit higher.
Also, honesty is overrated; while it may sound cool to say that it is not the jeans that make her look fat, it is also the most social incompetent way of handling the situation.
It is also not said that psychopats cannot be "good" people, whatever that is.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: It is also not said that psychopats cannot be "good" people, whatever that is.
Sure, if it's to their profit, and entirely in their own interests.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: Sure, if it's to their profit, and entirely in their own interests.
Which also goes for 99% of normal people.
Them religious nuts only try to be nice because they want to enter some heaven. That's not self-interest behind their piety, is it?
How about the average "normal" atheist? Where do they get their moral? Like the psychopats, perhaps from learning (!) what is socially acceptable and what isn't, and behaving accordingly?
Show me ten normal people, and I shall heal them 
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Which also goes for 99% of normal people.
Not at all.
Well over 90% of people will make an effort to treat people decently, and offer assistance to people who have problems, even if they get absolutely nothing out of it -- not even rep, kudos, and/or the keys to Heaven.
By definition, psychopaths will not. They are incapable of it.
I think you might be getting psychopaths mixed up with @rseholes.
@rsehole behaviour is just behaviour, which some people exhibit more than others, but which everyone exhibits, from time to time. Psychopathic behaviour is the result of a mental condition.
Psychopaths are @rseholes all the time -- but some of them manage to hide it behind outward behaviour which makes people think they're not.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: Well over 90% of people will make an effort to treat people decently, and offer assistance to people who have problems, even if they get absolutely nothing out of it -- not even rep, kudos, and/or the keys to Heaven.
Because it is in their interest to do so; it makes one a member of society, bringing some benefits. There's also some punishments for not being a "decent" member of society. That's also why you don't steal or murder, even when pressed 
Mark_Wallace wrote: By definition, psychopaths will not. They are incapable of it.
Why would they be incapable of such? Please explain the mystical barrier
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Because it is in their interest to do so
I'm afraid not. The conscious desire to "play nice with the other kids" has nothing to do with conscious self interest; it's evolved instinct (another mental condition, if you wish).
It's all well researched and documented, with so much experimental and empirical proof that there's no arguing with it.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Mark_Wallace wrote: By definition, psychopaths will not. They are incapable of it.
Why would they be incapable of such? Please explain the mystical barrier
Um, because that's the definition of the word -- which is kinda why I said "by definition".
"Pathological narcissism" is my favourite way of expressing it (Otto or Igor someone -- this ain't a formal text, so I'm not bothering to look up attributions)
People who don't meet that definition ain't psychopaths, just like people who ain't got blond hair ain't blond (even if they go to great lengths and expense to fake it).
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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