|
|
Probably both and your honesty. I think it is a valid question, but I would ask them to define a 10 level skills. Rating against a senior dev is very different to rating against a guru.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: but I would ask them to define a 10 level skills
What do you mean 10 Level Skills ?
Born To Learn
|
|
|
|
|
You would need to know if your are supposed rate yourself against what YOU perceive as senior developers knowledge or against someone like Charles_Petzold[^].
Without context the question is meaningless. Example, I would rate myself as 9-10 as a LOB developer but against Petzold it would be SUBSTANTIALLY lower 
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
|
|
|
|
|
Mycroft Holmes wrote: but against Petzold it would be SUBSTANTIALLY lower
They asked him about SQL, ASP.NET and C# not publishing...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
|
|
|
|
|
Petzold is an author of technical books not a publisher. As with any tech author his knowledge has to be way deeper than I need or use.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
|
|
|
|
|
And publishing those book 2 a year for the last 30 years and about 5 articles a day, so probably his knowledge is very academic...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
|
|
|
|
|
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: so probably his knowledge is very academic
Sure but I could just as easily used Sacha Barber, POH, Marc Clifton or any of the prolific authors here on CP to make my point.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
|
|
|
|
|
Now, those are real man to compare to!!! 
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
|
|
|
|
|
No, his knowledge is very practical, and his books come full of examples that work. If you want proof, then read any book he has written.
|
|
|
|
|
Maybe we see differently the 'practical' part...
I've read a lot of books of him, and have learned a lot too, my point is that Charles Petzold can not be a baseline for practical knowledge. He has a much wilder knowledge, but i doubt that he ever had the time to actually implement it on a real application...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
|
|
|
|
|
What does that matter? His books are still excellent practical guides to programming.
|
|
|
|
|
No doubt! But the whole conversation started if it is a good point to compare someone knowledge to Petzold's...or better pick up someone like Marc, you or other CPians...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
|
|
|
|
|
Richard MacCutchan wrote: his knowledge is very practical ... read any book he has written
I've read two: "Code" and "The Annotated Turing". Now, what's that about "practical"?
But seriously, I agree with you. And I need to read more of his stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
Mycroft Holmes wrote: Rating against a senior dev is very different to rating against a guru.
I have never met a guru. I have met plenty of people who thought they were gurus, but never met an actual guru.
|
|
|
|
|
King Fisher wrote: checking my their confident level or technical skill?
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
|
|
|
|
|
In many cases an interview question is asked, not to elicit a simple answer but rather to gain an insight into the candidate's problem solving process.
For example if you just say "8" without qualification or further discussion they might conclude that you are not analytical or investigative enough.
|
|
|
|
|
When I was interviewing I would always ask this for the technologies required - and hopefully elicit some discussion;
For example, I asked it of a junior candidate for a job, about SQL - he answered "9 or 10" - so , I asked for him to confirm there was nothing about SQL he didn't know. He started talking about how he hadn't really used UDFs - and went on to talk about what he had done - as he continued to adjust his score down, and describe his level of knowledge, I gleaned enough information for me to be confident that he did know his limitations, and for me to know what they were.
It is a good, simple way of assessing someones knowledge by engaging them in conversation rather than asking lots of tedious questions.
PooperPig - Coming Soon
|
|
|
|
|
With the availability of google, skill level is almost a moot point. I've found you have to be a better searcher most of the time.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
|
|
|
|
|
I used to keep piles of books on my desk. I would never throw out an old book.
Now... I have a clean desk, I just google everything. Google takes you from entry level to wherever you want to be in short order (generally speaking).
I was looking at my old books at home this weekend. I could not decide whether to have a bon fire (lots of fun) or just box them in the garage (just in case).
|
|
|
|
|
while I agree to a point, one still needs an underlying skill-set to be able to search sensibly, and to utilise the results of a search in a sensible manner.
Sure you can learn stuff from scratch from t'webs - but I want people who have done it before, worked out the kinks, have a good overview of the pitfalls - not someone who can copy some SQL, achieve the task, and not understand what they've done.
I find out what sort of person they are by having the sort of conversation elicited by the 'score yourself out to 10' question.
PooperPig - Coming Soon
|
|
|
|
|
I hate that question. Typically, I'll say 7 or 8, just to be honest and safe, but they give the job to the guy that says 10!
It is one of those questions that an interviewer asks when they are either not technical or they don't know much anyways.
One of the worst questions I ever was asked was, tell me about .Net Framework. My response was, what do you want to know.
|
|
|
|
|
I usually take this to be a rating of my confidence in my own abilities rather than a rating of my technical skill.
I know a friend of mine who was interviewing a recent graduate for a role of software developer who rated himself as a 9 out of 10 for C# despite having very little commercial exposure to it. Was he over confident or telling the truth? His other responses during the rest of the interview apparently revealed it was almost certainly over confidence.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare
Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
I ask that question all the time when interviewing a candidate, here is why?
1. I want to know what the candidate feels about his/her level.
2. I adjust the questions based on the level the candidate thinks. For example if someone thinks they are at level 8/9 but are struggling to answer some mid level questions then either they are not honest or they don't know too much.
The scale is arbitrary to me and just by itself does not reflect anything. But combining it with other factors and metrics, it gives me a glimpse of the candidates aptitude.
Let me give you couple examples:
1. Not too long ago I interviewed a candidate for senior level position. When I asked him to rate himself on C# and .net he said 9 out of 10. Later when I asked him to do some coding exercise he said he feels more comfortable talking about the theories and how the framework works and was reluctant to write a code on the white board. I kept explaining to him I was not looking for clean code and some syntax errors ( missing semicolon ) are not a factor. I cut the interview short half way through the coding exercise because he was struggling to write c# code for the position. The scale he gave himself didn't meet what I observed.
2. Another time, I asked a candidate to rate himself he said 6/7, but he was able to answer most questions and show solid code. Later I asked him why he gave himself a rate of 7, he said even though he knows enough there are many areas he would like to improve. We ended up offering him the position.
So, the rate a candidate gives me by it self does not mean much. But it helps me to alter the interview according to what the candidate thinks about themselves. If a candidate underrates himself / herself significantly just to impress me, I will have hard time to consider them for the position.
|
|
|
|
|
Just run around in circles outside for a while, killing SQL gurus to level up.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
