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Stefan de Zeeuw wrote: running on Linux for over 20 years now.
Stefan de Zeeuw wrote: Last month I changed my gaming machine from an old Intel system to a brand new AMD gaming monster.
Just take the SSD-drive from the old hardware and plug it in the new one and all is well. Try that with Windows.
Stefan de Zeeuw wrote: The next morning it still wasn't done updating.
Terrible experience with windows updates has become the norm.
Stefan de Zeeuw wrote: All this just to make clear that you can perfectly develop on Linux even C#.
Yep I write all my C# .NET Core on Ubuntu via VS Code. WebAPIs, console apps, and cross-platform (“winforms”) using Photino — see https://Photino.io & my article here on CP;
Photino: Open Source, Cross-Platform, Desktop Note-Taking App, via .NET Core[^]
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I gave up on Windows (at home) many years ago. The wife uses a Mac and I mainly use Fedora WS. I keep a ChromeBox as an extended experiment. I don’t miss Microsoft stuff at all.
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I've had an HP Microserver (with 24Tb of disk!) running Debian for 10 years now. It still runs just fine but, on the desktop, I use Windows 11 (without TPM because I hacked it when I was on the Insider program). I spend a lot of time using WSL and VScode with remote SSH editing of files on the Microserver and several Raspberry Pis.
I've also got a subscription to Microsoft 365 and 1Tb of Onedrive space. I haven't retired yet so still use Office and Windows at work.
I'm tempted to switch but the 2 application I sue for my hobby of 3D printing (Fusion 360 and Ultimaker Cura) don't have Linux versions and I've not sure my (obsolete) 3D Connections Space Explorer Spacemouse is supported under Linux.
If I knew I could run Fusion & Cura with the Spacemouse and use my Onedrive storage reliably, I'd switch.
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The first version of Linux that I used was on floppy discs (Soft Landing Systems) on a 386 machine
in '92 (Kernel version less than 1)
Since 2009 I write SDR software (C++, Qt framework) on Linux, there was a question to have it
for Windows as well. So, using the excellent cross compilation facilities with M ingw64 on Fedora, I cross compile the software - and test is on a Windows box.
After a while I decided to run windows and Linux on the same development laptop, using dual boot.
I (almost) only use windows for testing my stuff. Someone complained about photoshop not running on Linux, I use gimp for that, use LibreOffice for office like things.
One thing I am missing on Linux and that is the photoprinter software that goed with the canon inkjet printer.
Once - just as an exercise - I installed mingw64 on Windows to be able to compile my applications
locally, but using the tool(chains) on Linux works for me much easier.
Interesting observation is that on average running the applications on Windows takes up to 5 times
more CPU power than running them on Linux.
While Qt has a "Qt-creator" I'm too old for that stuff so I am using a command window with manually
given commands. Vim is the editor, qmake and cmake are the makefile generators, always generate dusiting development with the sanitizer libraries linked in and - if needed - debug with gdb.
Applications are reasonably sized, somewhere between 40000 and 50000 lines of C++ and they support a varietyy of SDR devices.
I also wrote a few plugins for SDRuno, an SDR framework that only runs on Windows. The SDRuno used nana
for the GUI issues, so my plugins use it as well.
I had to surrender to Microsoft MSVC and while the plugins work, I really dislike the MSVC environment.
While the error messages are (more or less) reasonable, I really dislike the behaviour of the toolsset, it feels like a big brother that knows everythinh better than the programmer and is eager to take over control.
I use fedora, it offers by far the best cross compilation facility for windows. The only drawback of
using Fedora is the speed with which new releases are prepared: once per half year.
Updating to the newest version is rather simple though.
I use Ubuntu, always an older version, in a VM for creating AppImages (kind of containers for Unix)
of the applications.
With Windows I have problems (apart from using the MSVC)
a. whenever I am in a hurry, the system starts updating and shouts "do not switch off the computer"
b. The dependency of the different dll's, and the "user friendly" messages you get whenever
a required dll cannot be found. This inevitably leads to installers for the applications with way too many dll's in it.
c. The enormous amount of API's, not really a transparent set
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The reason I might is, Microsoft want to push everything into the cloud and into a subscription for this or that, and I like to be able to work offline and not have to keep paying for the privilege of using my own kit.
BUT. I've spent too much time in the past trying to figure out arcane commands, trying to get NDIS drivers working, reinstalling kernels, trying to get SAMBA going, and messing around with boot loaders, etc. etc. to really want to go back there again. Is linux really workable now, or do you still need to poke around in the entrails first?
Anyway, are the apps really there now? Full compatibility with the MS Office suite, for instance?
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I switched my main machine to Linux a few months after the Windows 8.0 release. I do keep a Windows VM for games (that don't work under Linux), Affinity Photo and TurboTax. I'd love to be able to get rid of my Windows VM.
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Hi,
One suggestion I do have for Linux distro providers is to create a windows interface.
Not the code, just the UI.
Most of the people I know don't want to learn another interface. They are interested in
another OS aside from Windows but have 0 interest in another UI. Windows-like UI's hasn't
worked for them. They want a Windows 7 type UI or even a windows 10 UI.
Cegarman
document code? If it's not intuitive, you're in the wrong field 
Welcome to my Chaos and Confusion!
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Linux needs a Driver API so 3rd parties can make drivers fast and people can install what they want even if it doesn't follow some Linux ideology. DKMS isn't what I'm talking about. You need an actual API like Apples DriverKit etc. Every OS has this except Linux. It makes mix and match hardware not practical with Linux and it makes someone like me not want to contribute to drivers because it takes to much of my time. And it makes companies not interested in making official drivers as its to hard to maintain.
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switched so many years ago it isn't even funny. I run linux at home and as much as I am allowed at work. Since I am the IT manager(essentially director) very small shop. I get to use it alot.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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The last time I tried to use Linux as my main Desktop OS, I tried to create a shortcut on the desktop.
Turns out, that's not really a thing in Linux.
Then it turns out that "Create Folder" shortcuts whilst saving things weren't ever implemented.
After a few things like this, I realized that it wasn't yet ready for being a daily driver, and went back to Windows.
-= Reelix =-
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Reelix wrote: I tried to create a shortcut on the desktop
That is actually quite a pain to do. I've written my own apps and then had to create the desktop file & it is a complete pain so you are right about that one. They should make it much easier to do.
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Wish it was possible and legal to viably run Cubase 10.5 (or higher) and Native Instruments Kontakt on GNU\Linux. Ever since after Build 1809 of Windows 10, Microsoft has become a poor choice for professional audio. While Macs are rumored to run both of the above products flawlessly, there are stupid expensive.
I've actually briefly uses Macs for Garage Band and simple things, and the experience was good, but I've never really stressed it out like I do with Cubase on Win 10. Unfortunately, Windows 10 these days does dumb things like freeze for seemingly random reasons for several seconds at weird times or just drop audio packets. Driver support (while probably better than on the Mac) is also starting to wane and semi-pro amateurs and practicing musicians are sometimes forced to upgrade their expensive audio interfaces for no other reason than the vendors and Microsoft refuse to support or rewrite the old drivers. I've had OS crashes because of old drivers, and I've had audio glitches in situations where I shouldn't because MS Windows decides to do dumb background tasks at random times. Steinberg ASIO under Windows XP 64 Bit uses to be a solid platform bot Win 10/11 are not glitchy IMO. The audio dropouts and glitches seem to be worse when Microsoft pushes out their regular updates. Fortunately, my Win 10 hasn't received updates in quite a while (LOL).
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raddevus wrote: If you could run all of your apps & games on Linux…
What about muscle memory?
I know where windows services are.
I know how to find the mouse settings.
I know how to bring up task manager.
etc.
If all of those are duplicated then what exactly would be the difference?
raddevus wrote: no sitting & staring at update screen like Windows)
Solution, so don't do that?
At the end of the day I shutdown my computer. No hibernate. No sleep. Everything closed. Just habit probably because I want to make sure of the state of everything.
So if it wants to update I just walk away.
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Glad to hear that people have switched to Linux and are happy with it... I've been trying to, if not ‘switch to’, at least use it significantly, alongside Windows, since the late nineties. No luck so far, but I’m persistent!
The arguments for using Linux were: independence from the big bad wolf (Gates), lightweight, no BSOD, no viruses (hence no antivirus penalty), unbelievable stability and no need to reboot after every update, etc. Most of these arguments are not valid anymore: there are viruses and malware targeting Linux, the reboot after (almost daily) updates is a rule, I had crashes of the OS that I never seen on Win. for decades, programs crashing, or not working, on a weekly basis, etc. etc.
In the last couple of days, I’ve been trying to repair Kate – a basic text editor, similar to Notepad – which was crushing and losing all typed text  , when trying to save the file(!). I’ve installed Kate a few months back, when the previous text editor (gedit I think) stopped working! Did anyone had any major problems with Notepad lately?! After pulling my hair for some time and searching the internet for solutions (THE MAIN ACTIVITY on Linux!… BY FAR!), I gave up. Then I’ve tried to use the newly installed STM32CubeIDE… It wouldn’t start, because, when starting, the first thing it does is to check for updates. Aaaand, it can’t take them because I’m the wrong user (not root). Another couple of hours later, after new research online, it turns out, it was installed as root, and to a different location!
This is not Windows! You can not just click on an icon and install the program, after a few ‘Next’s, eventually. There are a myriad of sources, packages, dependencies, and, and, and… that one can use, and mostly not well (or at all) documented – even when they come from a reputable source as STM Microelectronics! And, after a painful installation of an application, come the problems: where is it installed?! It might not (fully) work, it can’t be updated, how can you uninstall it (and this can be a big problem, because months later you need to know exactly how you installed it!)
I’ve been thru all this, again, while having to uninstall, and install a new version, in a 'different way' the CubeIDE. 
After almost 30 years of Linux, I still can’t say how to do a proper, sensible backup! There are always a thousand ways and tools to do it, none that properly works! But hey, you got what you paid for, ain’t you?! Would you be happy with that end?! What about your time, life, neurons?!
Another major problem: when you say ‘Linux’, what do you mean exactly? We know what Windows is… This is the first BIG question one is facing when feeling brave/reckless/irresponsible enough to install this free, wonderful OS. At this moment, one does the first lengthy research on internet… And, while the thousands Linux ‘flavors/distributions’ have many commonalities, there are also major differences with regard to organization, updates, installation of programs, etc. ‘Flavors’ is misleading here by making you think of just, well, flavors/esthetics/appearances. This is one of the many reasons Linux didn’t succeed to make ‘The year of Linux’ a reality.
My first ‘Linux’ system was a 'Suse' (which I paid for), on a CD, with a book. Installed successfully. The problems, back then (~1997), where to get the mouse, the Ethernet/WiFi, display, basically the infrastructure to work, and usually to settle for partially working system. That was known. But, to my surprise, more than half of the preinstalled applications the Suse came with, didn’t work! Those were very basic applications: don’t think some kind of Office, IDEs, or graphic programs! And they were actually selling that crap! That should have been very telling. Not for me!
In my opinion Linux is a half-backed OS. Too many Lego pieces that don’t quite fit together and depend on each-other!
Never mind the feeling of going back in time to DOS, command line, scripts, etc. It is not a must for a while, and for some people who are lured by the “It’s almost like Windows!” propaganda.
Linux has its place in the server, embedded, IoT, etc. worlds. Not quite ready for desktop – I’ve been hearing this for decades!
Then, there is the subject of the many applications not available on Linux. Most professional/serious apps form such a long list (STM32xxx and MPLABX being pleasant exceptions), making a windows machine indispensable. I know there is wine, please don’t remind me of it!
There is hope. There are more and more companies who are not ignoring Linux anymore. There are more manufacturers who are trying to make Linux more usable, easing the transition. There are even some installing Linux on PCs they sell! But, as long Linux requires me to spend most of my time administering the OS, instead doing some useful work, I can’t switch! And I’m a masochist – as you might figured out by now.
I’m writing this from an Ubuntu 'box' (a PC runs Windows, a box - Linux, hence the quality), on a dual boot PC – Ubuntu 22.04 LTS and Win 10. It’s a 10 years old Dell Precision M4800, with a NVIDIA Quadro K2100M grapics card. The driver for this performant card never worked (right) on Linux, so the system falls back on the default driver, which is pathetic! Whoever heard of NVIDIA?! My fault.
On the Linux Mint, running as a VM hosted by Win 10, I expected the graphics driver not to work, but not on a real Linux!
I also have a Linux Q4OS on a (still) older laptop, and several distributions on raspberrys – 2, 3 and 4. One of them is running Pi-hole for almost a year now, without issues. When it works, and left untouched, Linux is wonderful (so is Windows, but, whatever!).
So, like I’ve said, I’m trying! And having less and less hair on my head…
You can try it, by all means! But don’t keep your expectations too high, and prepare for a world of pain, frustration and wasted life! And, oh, don’t uninstall Windows, just yet!
Linux is free, very open, great, and this might be the year of Linux (whatever that is)! 
Go for it! 
Cheers!
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Apparently we're supposed to be outraged that web browsers allow entry of 0.0.0.0 as a URL, but the part that surprised me on my desktop Linux computer when I tried netcat and ping, was that some part of the OS changed it to 127.0.0.1 and carried on like I meant localhost.
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RFCs (which specify e.g. 0.0.0.0) where 'Request for Comments'. Changed smoothly to specs... A very big black hole meanwhile 
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Depending on the context, 0.0.0.0 could be null, a placeholder, any address, or even self-referential. It's the general purpose address to butcher as you please. Don't expect it to route anywhere though even if the intent is self-referencing. Loopbacks are specific though. It's got one job.
Sooooo... if a tool wants to translate 0.0.0.0 as a loopback, technically that's kinda ok-ish... depending on who you ask and the moon phase of course. 
Jeremy Falcon
modified 9-Aug-24 15:19pm.
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Ed Attfield wrote: Apparently we're supposed to be outraged that web browsers allow entry of 0.0.0.0 as a URL,
How should I feel about 256.x.y.z? 
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The debug data must flow,
Heigh-ho the merry-O,
A-gathering we will go!
The inbox has bug reports from labs spread around the building. All of them included some debug data, just not all of it, so I'm getting my steps in this morning. I'm planning on running four miles at lunch.
Please make allowances; it's Friday before what is going to be a strenuous weekend and I haven't even had my first cup of ![Java | [Coffee]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif) yet.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: I'm planning on running four miles at lunch.
You still kept up with your running? Nice.
I'm soooooooo out of shape, like really.
Jeremy Falcon
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Confession time: At the start of the pandemic when I was working from home, the running and cycling came to a screeching halt. I started exercising again last December (elliptical machine) and running in early March. It's been a little rough but it's become a habit again. I feel like I've gotten a part of my self back.Jeremy Falcon wrote: I'm soooooooo out of shape, like really.
Hey, you've been there before. You know what you need to do, and when you're ready you'll get back to it.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: I feel like I've gotten a part of my self back.
Glad to hear it, buddy.
Gary Wheeler wrote: you'll get back to it.
Thanks man.
Jeremy Falcon
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Wordle 1,147 4/6
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