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I think I'm jumping guns here and look at things that are too advanced and I'm always missing some steps and that blocks me.
What would be a proper course progress ?
html -> css -> javascript/typescript (?) -> react/angular/vue (?) -> asp.net core (?) -> database (?) -> ..
Am I missing anything obvious ?
unless really necessary, I don't care about look and feel of the final results as long as it work, so I only need basic html and css.
I think I should probably do a good javascript course as it seems to be the big technology that everything else is based on (more or less).
Thanks.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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Eloquent JavaScript[^] is a very good free online book. In addition, my suggestion is to just walk through some HTML-CSS-JS code already available on Github, in your domain of interest; I feel that will lead to faster learning.
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Without a specific goal (project) in mind, I find it impossible to learn "something"; it's like memorizing history dates.
And once you start that project, it "tells" you what you need and when; or at least what you don't know and need.
But, yes, start with HTML and create your first static web site; hosted by someone else.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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Depends.
Surprise, huh? Do you want to play around to build some fun private stuff, or do you want to make yourself attractive on the job market?
For the latter, I might be mistaken, but I think that just knowing JavaScript ™ aint gonna cut most cakes. Experience from frameworks will be required. React and Angular will be found/required in rather dated systems. NodeJS is fresher, but I might be wronk, perhaps that is closer to the back end...
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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Concerning Quote: Am I missing anything obvious ?
I think immediately about http, as this lurks  behind everything in web development, and also, quite soon on this path, OAuth 2.0 becomes quite obvious to learn. Keeping focus and interest is essential, despite so many different technologies within web development ... 
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What I did, after coming from WinForms, was start a new ASP.NET Web Application, either Razor or MVC will do.
It will gave you a working basic application with some HTML and CSS and some back-end C# code.
It's fairly basic, but you can copy-paste your pages or controllers and add new pages.
It made sense to me and you'll be able to build web applications fairly quickly, even without fully understanding it.
After that I applied for a job as web developer and was up to speed in a week (or maybe I applied first and worked it out later, can't remember).
You can work out how the back-end and front-end interact from there, find tutorials, etc.
You'll be able to search for the specific questions you have and you can move to completely decoupling your back-end and front-end if you want.
Forget about front-end frameworks like React, Angular and Vue for now, you can learn those when you grasp the basics.
Database is no different for web than it is for any other application, you can still use Entity Framework, basic ADO.NET or any other ORM you like.
Starting from the bottom is boring and probably way too easy for someone who is already a programmer.
Of course we all learn differently, but starting with <p>This is a paragraph</p> didn't work for me.
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My daughter is currently doing web dev as a 1 year retraining course.
So far she has done...
- Pseudocode programming
- HTML5
- CSS
- SASS
- Bootstrap (IMO if you can get this to actually produce what you really want you're already qualified)
- Javascript
- WAMP/LAMP
- PHP
- MySQL/MariaDB
- Wordpress
- Shopify
I'll see if I can get hold of the complete syllabus if you're interested
So old that I did my first coding in octal via switches on a DEC PDP 8
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Thanks, that looks like a nice progression.
Gives me a lot to look at.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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Choosing a tech stack is the hard part imo, but there are obv things every stack needs, and db is one, so learn it sooner. I much prefer sql to nosql, and recommend that you learn it as soon as possible. Find out how to read queries at a minimum because that will help you learn how to build them. No matter what CRUD libraries are available in your main engine language, you will need to understand how to build a query for what you want.
HTML shouldn't take more than a day to understand; after that, reference pages should get you through.
CSS can be as complex as you want it to be, and understanding how it works will be valuable even if you wind up using a preprocessor like sass.
JavaScript is fun and aggravating, but improving all the time, so you'll need to keep up if you are going to use it for more than drop-down menus.
Are you going to do web apps or native apps? That will tell you what JS framework to concentrate on if you're going to go that route.
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Hey Max, just so you know, I'm saying this as a dude who's done a ton of web dev over the course of like 25 years. So, we're not talking about theory... it's about to get real. If I where to put things in order, I would suggest a path like this...
- Semantic HTML 5
- CSS Levels 2, 3 & 4 (including CSS animation... never animate in JavaScript unless it's on a canvas... never)
- Vanilla JavaScript (ECMAScript) (stay here a long while, do not rush it, learn to do everything natively that you would with a framework)
- TypeScript (a C# background will help; TS supports both the functional and OOP paradigms, do not rush this part)
- React (forget Angular or Vue React is king for now, this may change in the future though, do not rush this part)
- Node (forget ASP.NET Core for web dev, Node is king here for a reason)
- Npm (it may seem odd to mention this, but most folks don't know the majority of features npm supports)
- Database (100% agree to save this for last since most web devs don't know/do this anyway, but do learn both NoSQL and SQL, do not rush this part)
- Eventually learn WASM in Node and/or a language that will compile down to it. It's about to change the game dramatically.
Maximilien wrote: so I only need basic html and css.
Respectfully, I'll have to disagree with this. I can count on one hand the number of frontend devs that actually know CSS. If you don't care about the user experience then just don't become a frontend dev. Seriously, why do you need a GUI if you don't want to learn how to make a good GUI? Yes, there are UI libs that handle most things for you if you don't want to learn and for a hobby that's ok. But, if you're looking to do this as a job, then set yourself apart and actually learn CSS.
Also, if you ever plan to do this as a job, semantic HTML becomes much more important when it comes to de-cluttering your documents and accessibility with screen readers, etc.
Maximilien wrote: I think I should probably do a good JavaScript course as it seems to be the big technology that everything else is based on (more or less).
Yup, after HTML and CSS though. If you learn JavaScript first you may be tempted to learn stuff you can already do in CSS alone. If it can be done in CSS... do it. It'll always be the more performant route.
Also, be aware that JavaScript is insanely popular, and with that comes a lot of crap online written by people who have no idea what they are talking about. So, read everything, just be aware some things may have to be taken with a grain of salt.
This dude has a good JS blog and knows his stuff... 2ality – JavaScript and more.
If someone can't tell you the difference between a closure and composition... ignore every last thing they say about JavaScript. If they can't tell you about generators with a non-textbook, Googled answer... ignore every last thing they say about JavaScript. And so on.
Jeremy Falcon
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Wooahhh!
thanks.
When I said, I need only basic html/css is that graphic design (page layout look and feel) is not my strong point.
I will revisit that.
![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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Forgot to mention, during the CSS part, you should also familiarize yourself with Sass with SCSS syntax. Despite the stupidity of politicizing their home page like the rest of the sheeple who don't think, Sass is a great pre-processor for stylesheets.
Jeremy Falcon
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yeah, I've seen SASS popping up once or twice now.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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Could an alien mothership be hovering around the solar system, sending out tiny probes to explore planets? According to a Harvard scientist and a Pentagon official, it’s possible.
In a draft paper, the pair said it is feasible an extraterrestrial spaceship could be in our galactic neighborhood, exploring the region by the means of "dandelion seeds" — small spacecraft that can gather and send back information, similar to the way humans send out spacecraft to explore planets.
Avi Loeb, an astronomer at Harvard University, and Sean M. Kirkpatrick, director of the Pentagon’s All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) — established in July 2022 by the Department of Defense (DoD) to detect and study "objects of interest" — released the draft, Physical Constraints on Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, on March 7. It is not an official Pentagon document, but was carried out in partnership with the DoD. It has not been peer-reviewed.
This was posted in a forum I haunt by somebody - it comes from LiveScience.
I responded:
Quote: > According to a Harvard scientist and a Pentagon official, it’s possible.
> In a draft paper, the pair said it is feasible an extraterrestrial spaceship could be in our galactic neighborhood
On its face, the two statements above aren't really saying anything except "maybe there are aliens". That's the History Channel game.
> It has not been peer-reviewed.
This is very important. It's not science without peer-review. It may as well be astrology.
This is just a fluff piece on some junk science.
I used to blame the journos for their ignorance about science and their rush to get clicks and attention for perpetuating this kind of thing.
But eventually I realized that really, it's our responsibility to be mindful of what we take into our minds in the same way that it applies with our bodies.
The reason this stuff gets spread around - the reason journos keep getting clicks for it in the first place - is a dearth of critical thinking skills.
Is it any surprise then, that conspiracy theories abound on the Internet, and that that bleeds over into our reality? QAnon, et al.
In some western European countries they teach critical thinking in the classroom while kids are still young. It floors me that we don't do that in school where I live. It seems so fundamental to thinking.
Otherwise you just glom onto whatever affirms you or makes you feel good.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
modified 24-Mar-23 6:49am.
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My post was about critical thinking. I won't apologize for taking the position I have on it.
If it's boring, maybe skip my posts. I'm not sure you've considered that, so maybe the suggestion will be helpful.
Edit: Adding, your post reeks of self-affirmation. It sounds to me like you really want to believe you're especially clever or insightful in that you're hip to special knowledge most people aren't privy to. They're following an "approved narrative" and don't question authority, but you do  . That's how people get hooked on conspiracies. It makes them feel important and smart.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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honey the codewitch wrote: In some western European countries they teach critical thinking in the classroom while kids are still young.
They seem more fixated on teaching gender theory these days.
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Whatever they're doing, Western Europe's schools perform far better than the ones in my country.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Do not worry... they are trying very hard to get to the same level...  
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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What level? Have you seen the bio of the leading edge researchers/engineers/technologists? They're not of American ancestry even if they attended American colleges. Head of Microsoft? Indian. Head of Ubuntu? South African. Head of Linux? Finnish. Raspberry Pi? UK. Our typical American hubris needs to be checked. From what I've seen is that schools are more about rote and memorization to do enough to pass the standardized exams than problem solving. I think we've watched too many movies where we somehow come up with a magic way to deliver us from a superior foe (looking at you Independance Day ) that we've come to believe that will actually happen instead of prepping for it ahead of time.
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It's almost like if you critically think about it, not only is the evidence for it present in all cultures dating back thousands of years, but it affects literally everyone. As if the current reactionary climate surrounding the topic is due primarily to ignorance, which can be solved by... teaching.
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people don't want facts they want sensationalism.
facts are boring and require logical thoughtful deliberation.
Who wants to use their brains in our current society? I can't think of too many people who do.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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> Who wants to use their brains in our current society?
I think of the response among people to the "Spanish" Flu Pandemic in the early 20th century, as well as the response to smallpox vaccinations among some of the adult population and I think there's always been an undercurrent of intellectual laziness among a population of any size. Maybe the Internet made it worse. I don't know.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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honey the codewitch wrote: Maybe the Internet made it worse. I don't know.
It certainly allows it to travel broader and faster than ever before. 
TTFN - Kent
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