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If the question asked was "Do you see much Linux out there?", then the answer would essentially be "Very little".
Linux (or *nix in general) is a great OS for a backend server, performing ongoing, regular tasks that has no contact with the actual user. If your database server was switched from Windows to Linux (or the other way around), no user would notice. If a new embedded OS, unrelated to *nix, made its way into all the network routers around the world, no user would notice.
That goes for smartphones as well. If someone created a perfect clone of the Android user interface, and a library catching all Android system calls so that you could run standard apps on it, no user would know that underneath the interface was a resurrected Windows Phone.
In twenty years or so - those preceding the "next year will be The Year of Linux on the Desktop" - Linux guys strongly touted the great value of a CLI as far more efficient than a GUI. Where is the CLI of Android? Go a little further back, and they touted the flexibility provided by pipelines of filters. There are traces left of it under the hood, but that is under the hood. No non-computer guy today solves his problem by hooking together a chain of filters. They do not see the great advantage of having 42 different file systems to choose from. Not even the open source nature of some *nix systems and some applications. They do not see the programmability of emacs. ...
What people see might as well have been an alternate Windows desktop. Or based on the Classic Mac OS. There is nothing in the Android UI revealing it as *nix based. You do not see Linux.
Even on the desktop, when Linux is to be marketed to non-computer people, it is commonly disguised: Ubuntu is just like running Windows, only better! ... The "betterness" is not obvious to the non-computer user who cannot run the applications that his friends use. Who must accept domain specific application clones by code hackers who has never worked within the domain. Who must tolerate UI conventions ignored, every application doing details its private way.
That may be one way to recognize a Linux based application: Lack of respect for UI conventions and lack of true domain knowledge. Inability to run those applications that the non-computer user wants to run.
Let's keep Linux / *nix to the back office. It is doing a good job there. As long as Android doesn't expose Linux specific UI "qualities", it is fair enough. If you believe that you will have a great success you the user see Linux the way a True Linux User want it through a CLI, the way Linux really is, then I guess that you are up for a surprise.
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Yes to all I think, but to say it doesn't exist or isn't used is just wrong (just not by regular computer users) 
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macOS is actually based on BSD Unix...
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Super Lloyd wrote: Bonus question: is there that many normal non IT user using Linux out there?
Yup. Using Mono and WinForms, fullscreen, some users don't notice any difference with Windows because everything looks and responds the same. That's dedicated systems, running only one application - my Mom isn't ready for a Linux desktop 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Quote: is there that many normal non IT user using Linux out there?
Only those in the lunatic fringes.
Well, me, I am not sure I qualify as an IT type anymore. I spent most of yesterday shooting a failure that was caused by a 1/12/2022 Windows update (12/1/2022 for you right ponders).
>64
Some days the dragon wins. Suck it up.
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I'm a 'lunatic fringe' user of Linux. Windows 8 got me looking at Linux or BSD as an alternative. I gave BSD about six months of use and then tried Linux for six months. I actually like BSD better than Linux except for the lag on supporting new hardware. Linux was much better at supporting newer hardware.
I'm currently using MX Linux as my daily driver. It handles most of my daily computing needs with the biggest exception being games. Only about half of my Steam games (using Proton) work under Linux. I really only have one other application that keeps a Windows partition on my system, that's Affinity Photo. I really like the application and I really dislike Gimp.
One thing I will say about Linux vs Windows is that I've had way fewer issues maintaining my Linux system then I've had maintaining my Windows 10 machines (10 Windows 10 boxes).
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WSLg is widely available to the public, as is Explorer integration using 9P.
3D acceleration in WSLg ain't available to the public. Last time I checked (which is somewhen last week), you have to run preview drivers to get this working.
Whether you consider preview software "available to the public", is up to debate, of course. My personal definition includes shoving all preview stuff into the enthusiast category, with the public being defined as RTM-ready.
I know I'll be porting one of my recent work to Linux, debugging in WSL.
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Yeah... when my home project is... complete enough, I might have a go at the Linux port! ^^
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I think, it's roughly the same for me. I surely got a nook or cranny I'd like to polish for a bit before I think about running this thing on a rented server (main raison d'etre for WSL-debugging in this particular case, rented Windows servers cost an order of magnitude or so more, than their Linux counterparts).
Come to think of it, the vast majority of my code is OS-agnostic so I could, actually, start porting this thing more or less right now.
Thanks for inspiring me for taking the next step in this project!
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You're welcome! 
Mine is a desktop GUI... so using Desktop / OS tech.... But hey, I am curious about Avalonia!
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Mine is, and I'm damn grateful I don't get to sink my teeth into the thorny topic of Linux GUIs, a server-sided console project.
To be honest, I've no idea how I would go about programming something GUI for Linux. I mean, I got an emergency plan should I ever get product requirements about Linux support for a GUI project at my workplace and that emergency plan would be Windows.Forms under Mono. Still, I hope https://github.com/jsuarezruiz/forms-gtk-progress/issues/31 to yield some results in the years to come.
WSLg should at least provide a sensible debugging experience in this scenario, it can run Edge after all, so it may just as well run my GUI.
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It's called Windows Subsystem for Linux, and yes, it's production stable and in the regular build.
I recommend WSL 1. It doesn't need a hypervisor, has seamless file-system access, and you can just pick a distro you like and it works without X and without deamons. It's like running Linux natively, but much better in every way, since your drivers actually work and Windows Defender is lightyears ahead of anything in penguin land.
WSL 2 adds UI and service layer support to WSL 1, but uses Hyper-V to virtualize the file-system, which is stupid on multiple levels. The worst thing about Linux is X11/Wayland, the second worst thing are the deamons. Offering both and as a trade-off to being forced to use Hyper-V is like agreeing to get slapped in the face, so you can get punched in the gut.
When WSL1 is used right, you can integrate any Linux-specific toolchain on Windows. Right now I'm running Guacamole, SQLPad and code-server with SSO via tunnel over cloudflare access, all running inside WSL1 with less latency than if I was using a native Linux distro.
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Well.. my Linux interest was to test Avalonia, as a substitute to WPF on Linux & Mac.... so.. I need X11! 
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Super Lloyd wrote: is there that many normal non IT user using Linux out there?
When the disk failed on my wife's underpowered vista laptop I slapped Ubuntu on it and she loved it. I was much faster and was fine for everything she needed (browsing, writing a few documents). The only problem she had was sending / receiving documents in Microsoft word format - mainly because other people were not used to importing docs in other formats.
My wife is most definitely not a IT person.
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Yeah, my wife wouldn't have a problem running Linux. Over the years I've migrated her to using cross platform tools (Firefox, Thunderbird and Libre Office). About the only thing I'll have to do is install Zoom and she'll be set. I figure when Win 10 support is done, I'll just install whatever my current favorite Linux is (currently MX Linux).
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Program: Will not work for anything...
Programmer: Doesn't know why... 
Program: Works 100%
Programmer: Doesn't know why... 
You're welcome...
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Just had one of these moments with SQL Server. Bounced the server but I couldn't find out why one table in one database was locked.
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All the time...
Also the classic stages of dealing with a support case:
1) Before attempting to reproduce: It is working fine, we would have caught it if it is broken.
2) Before troubleshooting after reproducing the bug: How is this broken?
3) After finding the issue: How did this ever work?
4) After checking in the fix: This could never have worked!
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oofalladeez343 wrote: Program: Will not work for anything...
Programmer: Doesn't know why... 
Why get mad? The manager and the owner of the company don't know why either. That's why I am paid in the first place. I have no idea today, but gimme some time and I'll at least isolate what is causing it.
oofalladeez343 wrote: Program: Works 100%
Programmer: Doesn't know why... 
It never works 100%, and if you don't know why then some of your code comes from StackOverflow.
oofalladeez343 wrote: You're welcome...
Anytime.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Nope.
However, often the program has very nasty bugs. It doesn't work as expected and I don't know why.
Quote: Program: Works 100%
That would be a miracle. Only God blessed programs and trivial ones could work 100%.
However sometimes I wonder how can it work for a quite amount of time without crashing.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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Well... I mean compared to how it wasn't working at all...
No code works 100% unless it is a simple HelloWorld code.
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Messing around with flex/bison--have it working in a simple case. Moved to another application, same compile/link/etc.--won't link.
I seriously believe that Babylonia failed because they were the first to develop computers.
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I was messing around with Python Turtle because I had nothing better to do...
And while I was messing around, I did this...
import turtle
def main():
t = turtle.Turtle()
t.shape("turtle")
t.speed(100)
t.right(10)
length = 1
t.color("crimson")
for i in range(250):
t.forward(length)
t.right(100)
length = length + 0.5
main()
And it looks very much like the golden ratio in the center...
So I tried this...
import turtle
def main():
t = turtle.Turtle()
t.shape("turtle")
t.speed(100)
t.right(10)
length1 = 1
t.color("crimson")
for i in range(250):
t.forward(length1)
t.right(100)
length1 = length1 + 0.5
t.penup()
t.setpos(0,0)
t.pendown
length2 = 1
for i in range(250):
t.forward(length2)
t.left(100)
length2 = length2 + 0.5
main()
And there was only one difference in the design,
where the code stops is mirrored... That's it... No other variation...
Any opinions?...
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I was just reading up on the UltraRam from yesterdays news letter
UltraRAM Breakthrough Brings New Memory and Storage Tech to Silicon | Tom's Hardware[^]
It sounds awesome for computers in general, but it would have a huge impact on embedded applications.
feel free to chime in honey the codewitch.
to have a small embedded device that does not have to maintain power to RAM while waiting for a trigger would be a huge power savings for the embedded CPU. and if the device looses power all together, you wouldn't have to worry about writing data to flash or EEPROM, before loss. even to just have a 128K of it on an embedded CPU would be a huge step forward.
imagine having a device that someone powers up in 999 years after being dug up from some old found landfill and having it start working, is the stuff of sci-fi books. (I would say boot up, but if everything is still in memory, not much booting needs to happen)
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