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fgs1963 wrote: Because they're compassionate human beings?
Did not know these still existed in the work milieu.  
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Good point!
Maybe I've been blessed. In 39 years in the work force (35 at my current employer) I've had a total of 7 managers. 5 were excellent. I'm sure they would have gone out of their way to give a good reference to anyone they felt deserved it. I've been a manager myself (small groups) for nearly 20 years. Having learned from these managers - I do the same.
Based on many of the responses to your OP... I feel very alone.
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Quote: Because they're compassionate human beings?
I have only met 2 "Compassionate Human Beings" in my 72 years. One is my wife of 48+ years(Not just to me she is a Registered Nurse and cares deeply for her patients), and the other was my Mother-in-Law, and she has pasesd away. Neither of them are/were in IT.
I must admit that I, myself am not.
I will admit to being an extreme cynic.
Except for a couple of contracts, I have worked for myself sinve 1977. I could give me a "great Reference"
ed
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Slow Eddie wrote: I have only met 2 "Compassionate Human Beings" in my 72 years.
Damn... harsh.
Slow Eddie wrote: Neither of them are/were in IT.
Neither am I. Maybe engineers are just nicer that IT folks.
Slow Eddie wrote: I will admit to being an extreme cynic.
Ya think?
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This. This would set off a huge red flag for me that BigCo is likely a terrible bureaucracy with which I wouldn't want to be affiliated.
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It may also be a way for the new company to get contact information for middle-managers at the former employers, so they can try to market products and services to them.
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Everything is marketing!!
It's marketing all the way down...
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Since she already did the work, she could take the "assertive" approach, and say she is thankful for their response, that she has 2 references as is normal (or whatever), and that their time is too limited to take surveys but they welcome a call.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Gerry Schmitz wrote: that she has 2 references as is normal (or whatever), and that their time is too limited to take surveys
That's a good idea.
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When I was a manager (previous life), we would only verify employment.
>64
If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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theoldfool wrote: When I was a manager (previous life), we would only verify employment.
SUPER UPVOTE!!!
This makes sense to me, since humans' opinions can vary simply by how much sleep they got the previous night and if they are nutritionally deprived -- see judges grant fewer paroles[^] when they are tired and hungry.
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raddevus wrote: Would you be able to provide 3 Managers from your past that you could be confident would give you good responses?
Nope. They're either dead or retired. Seriously.
And the living ones are for the most part the ones I gave the finger to, so they wouldn't be good references.
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So being on good terms with you is the kiss of death? 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Marc Clifton wrote: And the living ones are for the most part the ones I gave the finger to, so they wouldn't be good references
Thank you for being so honest. I am in the same situation.
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I have actually been asked once to get reports, not surveys, about my performance from my last three employers, which I thought was a strange request here (in Portugal). Note that they did not want a report from my direct boss/manager but from my employer, who probably never even heard of me!
Worse, they wanted the report to have a minimum of five pages 
I told them no. Not because I couldn't but because too much time had passed. In the end I still got the job because I was the most qualified 
To answer your poll, I believe my former managers would have mostly good things to say about me because we still keep in touch once in a while
It is possible that BigCo. wants to use the survey to ditch most candidates in an automated way, possibly using AI (it is the latest fashion after all), but I think that they are using the wrong approach.
I agree with you. It is ridiculous. Someone that can present a lot of surveys either had many short jobs or was bad at their jobs.
Just for reference, I don't usually deliver a letter either. I only submit my short curriculum (three to five pages where two of them are my data). The only time I really had to supply a "Motivation letter" (a long time ago) I wrote something like "Tell me what I will be working on, then I tell you if I am motivated because just telling me 'C++ programmer' is the worst motivational phrase" 
And I got the job 
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Thanks for responding. Very interesting.
ElectronProgrammer wrote: It is possible that BigCo. wants to use the survey to ditch most candidates in an automated way, possibly using AI (it is the latest fashion after all), but I think that they are using the wrong approach.
This may indeed be the entire thing.
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As others have pointed out, most US companies will only verify employment. This was true even over 20 years ago, mostly out of fear of lawsuits for less than enthusiastic recommendations. As BigCo must know this, their request is more than ridiculous, and I would be tempted to point it out. Then again, I'm not the one looking for a job.
I suppose I'd be able to provide references from 3 managers, but all are retired. Unfortunately, the one I'd really want to use is no longer with us. But I think references from former peers should carry at least as much weight as those from former managers, especially for technical, non-managerial roles.
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I've been working in the same place for 13 years, and don't have contact info. for any of my previous managers. I'm sure that at least some of them have moved on to other companies. This seems like a way to reject applicants without actually rejecting them.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Nope. That's a pretty ridiculous request as others have pointed out. Just get a couple friends to fill them out anonymously. If BigCo says anything, just reply with "they wish to remain anonymous." Worst case scenario is they reject you which would have happened anyways with that ridiculous request very few people could actually comply with.
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Yes, and I did provide three managers for my current position.
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I was able to provide references for my current job easily since I had been laid off from my previous two jobs. That's the nature of my line of business, especially when it's tied so closely to the semiconductor industry. For my current job I changed industries completely and the likelihood of getting laid off from this company is exceedingly remote. It makes me wish I had joined them a long time ago.
As to your point : I've been professionally employed for almost forty years and their request is one I have never, ever seen before. I think it is abnormal and excessive.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Rick York wrote: As to your point : I've been professionally employed for almost forty years and their request is one I have never, ever seen before. I think it is abnormal and excessive
Thanks for chiming in on this.
I've worked in IT for 30 years & I've never seen that kind of thing either.
It's just a game that they are playing, I think.
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I could provide three positive manager references, although not recent ones.
Really, what are they going to do with references older than one or two years?
"Sander still had a lot to learn... Ten years ago."
And honestly, having three or more recent managers may be a huge red flag.
I'm currently my own manager and I'd not rate myself favorably as I'm always slacking away on CodeProject
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As said by a few people (including me), this appears to be a way of rejecting someone without actually rejecting them. As no company these days will give any sort of comment about a former employee for fear of being sued, it is impossible to fulfill. I am certain that "BigCorp" knows this.
Sander Rossel wrote: I'm currently my own manager and I'd not rate myself favorably as I'm always slacking away on CodeProject
Fire the so-and-so! 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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