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C0ding_j3ff wrote: How long would you recommend intern/junior development before going out on my own?
I guess I would say a year or two. Every college graduate I've ever worked for pretty much knows nothing practical in terms of contributing productively to a project. Some haven't even ever worked with an IDE or know how to start the debugger. This is the problem with schools using Linux-based systems and CLI's - free tools does not mean practical/useful experience in school.
That said, and repeating myself, every one of these college graduates has needed a year or two to get up to speed with the tools, the languages/frameworks, and the business domain. Heck, I've been at my current job for 4 years and I still don't know all the features of the product - domain myopia, lol.
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As Marc mentioned, someone fresh-faced out of education with no experience might find it a little more challenging, mostly because you'll probably want to find a position where you can be trained how to do "commercial" development.
A suggestion to benefit both yourself and potential employers, look at putting together some small or medium open-source projects as a bit of a portfolio (ie. on GitHub). It's a great way for you to practise the skills you've learned and demonstrate them, and it gives you something to put down on your CV for prospective employers (or the developers working for them) to have a look at and get a better idea of your skills.
You can also gear your open source projects more towards the type of development you like. If you're interested in becoming a web-developer then put together a basic, interactive website. If you're interested in becoming an API/REST developer then bang together an API which does some basic CRUD operations?
Final bit of advice, don't try and cast the net too wide either. I think most developers will end up specialising in a specific language/framework, if you try and keep on top of lots of languages/frameworks you'll spread your knowledge too thin. When interviewing candidates I always like to ask questions about the specific languages we use (eg. Java) and try to get them talking about what they like about that language (ie. What features of newer versions of Java are you most excited to try out?)
</2cents>
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I'd also say that in most cases hiring team doesn't look for specific language or technology knowledge in candidate, at least if you're looking for "good" job. Your interviewers look mostly for your knowledge of algorithms and ability to solve algorithmic tasks, so it's worth to have some training in computer science fundamentals. There are some classic books in that area that are worth reading to be ready for those interviews:
- J.McConnel - Analysis of Algorithms[^]
- Th.H.Cormen - Algorithms Unlocked[^]
- S.McConnell - Code Complete[^]
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies. T.Jefferson
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Hi, if you are looking for a job in a company that produces software, for my experience your certificates are worth basically nothing.
Real experience matters.
Real experience means a project you can show to the recruiter: this is what I did and this is how it works. Based on your area of interest, I suggest to build a real-life project.
As example, if you want to work in the web/enterprise area, build a simple CRUD admin interface to some kind of database with a backend. In this way you will get real experience working with Angular/React, sql server, asp.net core & C#. You will therefore get a job in days.
Just change my example in your area of interest. Low level firmware? Buy an Arduino and make something working. Like data-science? get free dataset and make an ML working. etc etc.
Or at least, my experience is based on countries with medium-high IT demand. So if you live in low-IT demand area, try to move.
If you have the right skills, in the right country, you can find a job in days.
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Get out of Computer Science; get a Master of Psychology; and, open your own practice. You will be able to write your ticket just about anywhere...
Seriously, the future in Computer Science is maybe in Data Science or Engineering. Be careful to not take an "easy" job or you may be replaced by low-code/no-code developers. Even worse, they may force you to use low-code/no-code "techniques".
Power BI and .NET/Core are cool, but most of the low-code/no-code products I've seen from Microsoft are IMO "garbage". My personal opinion is that .NET Core is easier than Node.js, but that Node.js might be more performant under heavy load.
Make sure you emphasize your strengths and your strong math background. Math is still one thing that often separates Computer Science graduates from "casual" programmers.
I know you have (or are about to finish) a BS in CS and you would rather code for a living but there still seems to be high demand for Network and Infrastructure (VMWare) engineers. OpenShift and Kubernetes admins seem to have rewarding careers should you not mind the bad naming convention for GNU\Linux background drivers.
Lastly, you said you had to do a background check. If you are: a 100% citizen of your country and have no other allegiances; willing go back maybe as much as a decade (or more) to have a through investigation of yourself to include polygraph; willing to live a life of "secrecy"; maybe you should consider a career in intelligence. Don't follow them on social media though...
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Ten weeks for a simple background check in the US is unreasonable. This was probably not the whole truth.
Your screening interview may be done by a non-technical person. Your in-house interviews will be with people who know how to code.
You are one of a million new grads, all alike. Expect to go through a lot of interviews before finding someone who wants you. It's not your fault. You will hear "no" a lot, and "yes" only once.
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The best thing I ever did for my career was to start writing articles on CodeProject.
Some of the reasons why I believe it's helped:
- Demonstrates your ability to present ideas.
- Showcases your technical knowhow and creativity.
- Gives you the opportunity to demonstrate polite social interactions in comments.
- Shows that you're willing to put yourself out there.
- You get to connect with some great people on the site.
-Daniel
modified 17-Nov-21 12:11pm.
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Without having any professional experience, it's always more difficult to get a job. So you should expect to be invited to numerour interviews and then not be picked for the job because there's usually someone else with professional experience, who will be preferred by the employer. It's a question of luck and a matter of time. Once you have 2-3 years of experience, it will be easier applying for your next job. And then you can be more picky when it comes to "good" or "not-so-good" jobs.
For your first job, just make sure they don't fleece you, financially.
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If you're new to the industry, then my advice would be a combination of the following...
• Try and find evidence that the company you'd be working for has someone highly technically competent. I suggest that your #1 priority if you're early in your career is finding a good mentor. Be humble and try and absorb everything you can from them. It will save you years of learning.
• Bear in mind there are (at least) two reasons behind hiring. Sometimes companies just need someone's butt on a seat in order to get some stuff done, to lighten the burden on their team. They hire a junior hoping that they'll get up to scratch soon and then be able to churn through some similar work. This is the most common. Sometimes companies want more junior staff because they find to find someone to invest in for longer term benefit. Which this is, well that's out of your control. But I put it to you that the latter is by far the most beneficial to you personally. Try and quiz the company in interviews regarding the history of the work the department has done, where it's going, why this position has come up etc. to try and figure out which of these you're looking at.
I'd recommend focussing on those, and less on the actual techs involved. Technologies change very frequently, and if you're joining this industry, you'll find they continue to change, so being tied to something specific is a risk. I put all my eggs in the Silverlight basket for example. Didn't work out so well, so had to almost start fresh a few years into my career.
Keep the attitude of a student throughout your career. You're never done learning, and always try to improve.
Best of luck.
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1. A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT APPROACHES ARE BEING TRIED
We are still clueless.
2. EXTENSIVE REPORT IS BEING PREPARED ON A FRESH APPROACH TO THE PROBLEM
We just hired three kids fresh out of college.
3. CLOSE PROJECT COORDINATION
We know who to blame.
4. MAJOR TECHNOLOGICAL BREAKTHROUGH
It works only so so, but looks very hi-tech.
5. CUSTOMER SATISFACTION IS DELIVERED ASSURED
We are so far behind schedule the customer is happy just to get it delivered.
6. PRELIMINARY OPERATIONAL TESTS WERE INCONCLUSIVE
The darn thing blew up when we threw the switch.
7. TEST RESULTS WERE EXTREMELY GRATIFYING
We are so surprised that the stupid thing works.
8. THE ENTIRE CONCEPT WILL HAVE TO BE ABANDONED
The only person who understood the thing quit.
9. IT IS IN THE PROCESS
It is so wrapped up in red tape that the situation is about hopeless.
10. WE WILL LOOK INTO IT
Forget it! We have enough problems for now.
11. PLEASE NOTE AND INITIAL
Let’s spread the responsibility for the mistake.
12. GIVE US THE BENEFIT OF YOUR THINKING
We’ll listen to what you have to say as long as it doesn’t interfere with what we’ve already done.
13. GIVE US YOUR INTERPRETATION
I can’t wait to hear this nonsense!
14. SEE ME OR LET’S DISCUSS
Come into my office, I’m lonely.
15. ALL NEW
Parts not interchangeable with the previous design.
16. RUGGED
Too darn heavy to lift!
17. LIGHTWEIGHT
Lighter than RUGGED.
18. YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT
One finally worked.
19. ENERGY SAVING
Achieved when the power switch is off.
20. LOW MAINTENANCE
Impossible to fix if broken.
The less you need, the more you have.
Even a blind squirrel gets a nut...occasionally.
JaxCoder.com
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Consider this stolen. 
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Back in the 90s... when "multimedia" was the latest new thing...
there was a cartoon joking that a product required the executable to be on a hard drive while the data needed to be on a floppy, and the marketers said, "we'll call it multimedia!"
I repeat myself:
The Lounge[^]
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Marketing, gotta love em?
The less you need, the more you have.
Even a blind squirrel gets a nut...occasionally.
JaxCoder.com
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What was that? Sounds like a compiler on any 8 bit computer. Even the 16 bit computers were not always 'multimedia' enough to completely get rid of that problem. Looking at you, my recently repaired old Atari ST.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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How old's the site? Chris' profile dates to July 6, 2000, so member numbers mustn't've been a day-one thing.
Regardless, ![Green Alien | [Alien]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/alien.gif) is now old enough to have a champagne flute in his empty hand. 🥂
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1999
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: 1999
Oh yeah. The year to moon escaped from orbit due to overmining. 
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Don't mention that. I have still all kinds of parts for my Eagle all over the desk.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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I have projects like that. 
You keep intending to put all the parts together but never find time...
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At least I now have all parts of the model designed and printed now, except for the container in the middle. That container is going to be a brick of around 50 cm length and I can only fit it in precisely when I have assembled the rest of the model. And that's a lot of work because every part must be sanded to get rid of the printer's layer lines and then painted.
The only thing I worry about is the stability of the model. It is going to be over 80 cm long and will only be held together by its 3D printed 'spine'. If it proves to be too weak, I will have to make a new version of it, where all the bars over the entire length will be replaced by carbon fiber rods. These don't break so easily.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Is the model your design or downloaded?
Either way, you may be able to put a hollow cylinders down the centers of the spine beams and slide in metal rods for extra support? If the center span is 50cm, then the spine must be printed in several sections unless you have a large printer!
I've used this technique to mount multiple monitors on my desk (printed cylinder with, in my case, 1/2 inch metal rod at core) and it's worked fine.
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StarNamer_ wrote: Is the model your design or downloaded?
Both. The original model was intended for graphics, not for printing. Many details were missing or seemed to be done with textures. Also, not much care was taken what the objects looked like inside. A renderer does not care, the 3D printer does. The list is even longer, so I ended up with drawing 90% of the parts from scratch and modifying the remaining parts.
StarNamer_ wrote: Either way, you may be able to put a hollow cylinders down the centers of the spine beams and slide in metal rods for extra support?
That's more or less the idea, but we don't need metal rods. I have built similar structures as tails for RC helicopters using carbon fiber rods. They are not only lighter and almost as strong as steel, but also don't permanently bend and are easier to work with (no soldering or even welding).
StarNamer_ wrote: If the center span is 50cm, then the spine must be printed in several sections unless you have a large printer!
I made a mistake! The container in the middle should be about 50 cm, but it's not. That was another problem with the original model. The idiot who posted it scaled it down to fit his printer and did not mention it. I wanted to get the full length of the original studio model, but ended up with something around 3/4 of that. So the spine also is a little shorter, but still 58 cm. But yes, I had to cut it up into four sections. At least I took care to maximize the areas where they are glued together and used a glue that dissolved the outer layer of the plastic and fuses the parts together if they are pressed together until all of that solvent has evaporated. If that's not strong enough, there still is Plan B.
Just look at my post in a modeler's board: Modellboard[^]. There are plenty of screenshots directly out of Blender, even if you don't understand much of the discussion.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Happy Birthday CP!
:fiesta:
"Five fruits and vegetables a day? What a joke!
Personally, after the third watermelon, I'm full."
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Joined Code Project as;
Old Timer June 7, 2002 Member#39334
The less you need, the more you have.
Even a blind squirrel gets a nut...occasionally.
JaxCoder.com
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I remember when CP was just a baby.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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