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OriginalGriff wrote: If it's got to vent outside and it's nowhere near a wall
I don't know if it's legal in my country, there are some building rules about it (e.g there must be a hole from the wall to the exterior positioned either high or low depending if using methane or propane) and I never saw a stove not near a wall. I should check.
GCS d--(d-) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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The range is actually on the inside garage wall. Ideally, I'd love to go to the roof, but remember, straight runs are important. A straight run would take it right through my upstairs hallway. Might impact re-sale value  .
Seriously, I think most house architects for basic houses in America had brain-farts like crazy in the 80's. My house was built in 89, and it was a builder's house. No plan at all for proper venting.
So, the plan is to punch through to the garage and run a vent pipe along the ceiling to the exterior wall. Haven't decided if I want to frame and conceal it.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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den2k88 wrote: Italian houses have only 3 kW of power available for the whole house
How much? 
Our's is a very old standard 80A meter, so that's about 20kW. 3kW would be exceeded if the shower and oven were on together, never mind any heating! 
The modern UK standard is for a 100A meter, so about 25kW. That'll likely increase as electric cars and wall boxes become the new normal.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Italian house contracts are 16A (about 3.6 kW). Recently they actually reduced the available power with big overprices when consuming ore than 3 or 3.3 kW so we all try to stay below 3.
With electric cars there are some contracts that allow 6 kW but only directed to the EV charging station, not for the whole house, as every EV charging session has to be authorized from the energy company center and is constantly monitored.
There is the possibility of asking a 4.5 kW but it has a massive overprice in monthly fees and additional costs on energy.
So yes, don't use the hairdryer and the washing machine concurrently or the power gets cut, that's the very first thing we learn about domestic appliances.
GCS d--(d-) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Wow. I'm looking at my 300A panels in the garage... I guess I could run a death star or something, but I'm sure it's code related.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Years ago SWMBO decided she wanted a new kitchen.
We too got the Italian stove you described. It was the same cost, more or less.
New cabinets, Granite and marble countertops, plumbing, etc. later, I was in it for $20,000.00, not counting the cost of the stove or the refrigerator, which we already owned.
On the plus side, it was well designed, it looked terrific, and has stayed that way. The Italian stove oven controls failed a couple of years ago, and we have been unable to find anyone to fix it. 
On the range hood, do make sure you get one that is vented outside.
Never let SWMBO buy a house when you are not there to defend yourself.
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So you have a Hallman range otherwise known as live?
They now have a distributor in the US, and there are maintenance plans available, but I do have a little apprehension of having a beautiful non-functioning range (FIAT - fix it again Tony).
Exterior venting of the range vent is a given and not negotiable. If we cannot solve the problem, we'll just do electric.
It's an interesting experience, and I'm happy to hear the kitchen still looks good. Wife and I have really gotten into cooking, so this is a life time buy for us. It's funny, the supply of houses for sale in the US is at an all time low. I get 2-5 cold calls a week asking me if I want to sell my home. Nooooo. (my wife knows how to shoot, it's not worth it )
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Good luck. My parents did that a few years ago and got hit by a bunch of "the person who built the house was an idiot, and fixing will cost more" (which everyone involved was painfully aware of) scope creeps.
Plan - reality
1) Pull down the old wall paper and paint the plaster underneath - plaster was badly cracked and needed replaced with dry wall. (This one at least was semi-expected.)
2) Pull down drop ceiling and paint what's above - turned out to be 1/4" plywood on hung on 1x2 scraps, needed replaced with dry wall.
3) N/A - start ripping out the plaster only to have the window between the kitchen and mud room fall out of the wall because the idiot just cut a window sized hole and stuffed it in without bothering to frame it in place. Fortunately it fell towards the worker and he caught it instead of having it shatter on his head.
4) N/A - Discover not 1, but 2 live wires floating around in the kitchen ceiling.
PS And that's on top of the stuff they already knew about that would make the job harder like most of the walls being an inch or two out of square because the original owner dumb-![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) ed his home one bit at a time himself as he could afford to built more.
PPS If you really want to blow the cabinet store saleperson's mind, show up not just with basic measurements of the room but ones detailed enough to include how off-square the walls are so they can plan how big of extra offsets are needed to fit gap filling trim pieces in.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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You know, you've just given me a great idea. I'm going to take the cabinet plan down to a big box store and have them quote a high end cabinet order. Kraft Maid comes highly rated - there are others. Just as a sanity check.
Thankfully, my house was built in 89 with some semi non-insane electricians. The walls are sheetrock, so if we need to open them up, it's really inexpensive.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Mom and Dad's house was built starting around 1930 by the knucklehead who lived in it. Fortunately at this point I think they're within a single room of having opened every ceiling at this point; and my Dad rewired all the first floor wall outlets via basement access when I was a kid, so most of that's been dealt with at least. OTOH Dad has left a few fails of his own along the way. 
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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This is not the sort of thing I normally read nor care about, but it caught my attention nonetheless. This BBC article mentions that Rihanna is now officially a billionaire...which is in fact the exact title of the article in question.
As is typical of the BBC's articles, it starts off with a picture and caption. The caption points out that most of her earnings come from her cosmetics company. The first paragraph of the actual article starts with "Rihanna is now officially a billionaire and the wealthiest female musician in the world, according to Forbes". The next line in article pegs her net worth at $1.7B, with $1.4B of that coming from her company.
So basically, she's the wealthiest female musician, but it has nothing to do with her being a musician. If they were comparing her wealth as a musician with that of other musicians, then it's not really a fair comparison...given that most of her wealth was not generated through her music.
I wonder how she ranks when compared with other owners of cosmetics companies...wouldn't that be more relevant, if the point of the article (which I suppose it's not) was to draw comparisons with her peers?
As an aside...I had neither heard of her cosmetics company's name before, nor could I honestly name a single one of her songs. That does say more about her, or me? Am I supposed to care either way?
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Yeah, The Who would never sell out like that.
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yes they would
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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PIEBALDconsult wrote: The Who
The what?!
(Just kidding. Even I've heard of them)
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Without her fame as a musician her cosmetics company would in all likelihood not have been as successful. So, in a slightly left of centre way, her music absolutely contributed to her fortune.
Her music and persona is her marketing platform, and an insanely effective one given her target market.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Agreed. But I wonder if she'd rather have that sort of money because she's a singer, rather than because of her side-line...
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I'm not sure she cares where the money comes from. She's a business woman who happened to
start out as an entertainer.
It's like you being an awesome programmer who builds a business up and ends up spending more time in meetings, running around the country side, dealing with people, and growing an awesome enterprise that challenges you and rewards you with a cool billion. Sure, you were a developer, and you still do that, but you'd have to accept that you're a business man now. Your code got you started, your business acumen got you where you are.
Personally: I'd be happy if I made that sort of money sweeping streets.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: It's like you being an awesome programmer who builds a business up and ends up spending more time in meetings, running around the country side, dealing with people, and growing an awesome enterprise that challenges you and rewards you with a cool billion.
So, that's what your life's like these days? 
TTFN - Kent
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Exactly. I'm really having trouble trying to find a spot for all these yachts and Bentley's. And do you have any idea how hard it is to get good help to keep the mansions clean?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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What's the rate? I'll clean for the right rate. I'm here to help
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Chris Maunder wrote: She's a business woman who happened to start out as an entertainer.
I wonder how she describes herself primarily. If you start out as an entertainer, you'd think that's because this is your primary aspiration.
I totally understand your analogy and getting bogged down into meetings and such.
I can't imagine she's very hands-on, on a day-to-day basis, in terms of managing her business, and she still focuses more on her singing career. Because she's the only one who can do that - whereas she can delegate the running of her business to anyone.
Chris Maunder wrote: Personally: I'd be happy if I made that sort of money sweeping streets.
Well, I can't argue with that.
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and yet some of the best s/w people I've worked with were musicians.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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You just reminded me...
Many moons ago (in the "glass tty" era), my employer bought a full screen text editor developed by a client.
It was way ahead of the line editors that we used, and fortunately the keyboard commands (ctrl/shift/xyz - no alt or winkey!) were configurable.
The originals as shipped involved horrible contortions of the hands. ctrl-shift-4 was one of the easier ones.
All became clear when we discovered the originator was a concert pianist.
Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012
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Peter_in_2780 wrote: The originals as shipped involved horrible contortions of the hands. ctrl-shift-4 was one of the easier ones.
That doesn't even rate, pinky and ring fingers curled back, index extended.
Ctrl-alt combos are much worse to 1-hand since you need to pinky+thumb them limiting the orientation of the rest of your hand.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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good for her.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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