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Slacker00716-Jul-21 3:23

Slacker007

16-Jul-21 3:23

my understanding of the real definition of "senior" is:
1. needs very little assistance, if at all, to get their work task completed.
2. mentors and reviews entry level and junior developers/programmers/engineers/whatever.
3. is part of the system architecture and design process and decision making.

what I have discovered is more in line with what Sander has posted: people who have been with the company a long time.

I have also observed people who have been in the business for a certain amount of years and these people think that gives them the right to be called "senior", when it fact, they are terrible at what they do and are anything but senior.

at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter anymore.

modified 16-Jul-21 10:00am.

PIEBALDconsult16-Jul-21 4:52

PIEBALDconsult

16-Jul-21 4:52

I reject the premise of the question.

Daniel Pfeffer16-Jul-21 5:06

Daniel Pfeffer

16-Jul-21 5:06

Senior is a job title. Proficient is the ability to do the job. The two should be (but too often are not) related.

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.

Gerry Schmitz16-Jul-21 5:15

Gerry Schmitz

16-Jul-21 5:15

(Senior) Programmer Analyst.

Can wear multiple hats. Bridges the user - programmer gap.

I'd say most "junior" programmers are weak / lax in analysis and design; so if you find one that can, he's a "senior".

There are probably senior junior programmers out there that may become senior senior programmers one day.

It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food

honey the codewitch16-Jul-21 5:49

honey the codewitch

16-Jul-21 5:49

Disclaimer: I'm probably more of a developer than anything, but I've held senior positions for most of that time. Also I've got to talk about myself a bit here because it's only fair you know how I came by my information.

I would consider someone senior if they were comfortable in the following roles (whether or not they will be doing them in a particular position):

1. They should be good at being a team lead, which requires some amount of project management
2. They should be able to supervise and mentor (see #1)
3. They should be able to be critical in making hiring assessments that benefit the company
4. They should be a good liaison between management and the software team
5. They need to be good at communication at a high level (see #4)

#4/5 is one that was the most challenging for me, because I'm very technical and analytical, but I was good at the first two in large part because developers tend to respect me professionally - i can develop as well as lead a team and manage a project. I'm good at the 3rd one because I'm good at assessing people's technical abilities. This is probably overall why I've been in those roles.

I hope that helps.

ETA: It seems some people here have had different experiences with what people expect from senior developers. I was working at consulting firms that would hire at senior level and expect something very much like the above from anyone that they hired at that payscale.

Real programmers use butterflies

modified 16-Jul-21 11:55am.

Greg Utas16-Jul-21 6:35

Greg Utas

16-Jul-21 6:35

With regard to your 5 points, I agree with each more strongly as you go down the list. If someone is really good at developing code, #1 and the supervision part of #2 can be outsourced, for much the same reasons that it would be wasteful to have that person clean toilets. Laugh | :laugh:

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The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

Re: after we were astronauts

honey the codewitch16-Jul-21 6:46

honey the codewitch

16-Jul-21 6:46

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's the best use of my time either, but it's also something that helps you keep teams together. And having that skill .. well let's just say there are a lot of soft-skills surrounding it that, while less tangible, such as communication and leadership skills, really help in a senior position.

Real programmers use butterflies

after we were astronauts

BillWoodruff15-Jul-21 22:48

BillWoodruff

15-Jul-21 22:48

We woke up one day: we were astronauts on a small blue planet spaceship. We asked: "why do we keep going round and round the sun ?" The moment we asked that, we were no longer astronauts, and, we began to feel an incredible ache for the beauty, and power, we once had. And, we were tormented by the need to question the reality of our memories of soaring through space.

... one of those days ...

«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali

Richard Andrew x6416-Jul-21 6:05

Richard Andrew x64

16-Jul-21 6:05

I'll have what he's having!

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

CCC

pkfox15-Jul-21 21:32

pkfox

15-Jul-21 21:32

Unconditional love (8,4)

"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

OriginalGriff15-Jul-21 21:40

15-Jul-21 21:40

ABSOLUTE ZERO?

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

pkfox15-Jul-21 21:42

pkfox

15-Jul-21 21:42

Yep YAUM

"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

OriginalGriff15-Jul-21 21:55

15-Jul-21 21:55

Yesterday's helped - see: I can learn new things! Laugh | :laugh:

pkfox15-Jul-21 22:20

pkfox

15-Jul-21 22:20

I get sent a WOTD from the OED which occasionally gives me a starting point to compose a clue ( the hardest part for me is thinking of a word ) but lately they are totally unusable. Todays was "stink eye".

"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

OriginalGriff15-Jul-21 23:13

15-Jul-21 23:13

A dirty look for street tattoo, yes? (5, 3)

musefan15-Jul-21 23:44

musefan

15-Jul-21 23:44

Is that not "aye"?

OriginalGriff15-Jul-21 23:48

15-Jul-21 23:48

"Yes" == "Aye", and the question mark gets it to "eye" (hopefully)

musefan15-Jul-21 23:46

musefan

15-Jul-21 23:46

I don't get it?

OriginalGriff15-Jul-21 23:49

15-Jul-21 23:49

Unconditional    ABSOLUTE
love                      ZERO (in Tennis)

It would have been better with "OK?" at the end, maybe.

musefan15-Jul-21 23:54

musefan

15-Jul-21 23:54

Yeah, it's missing a definition for the whole answer...

and I don't get the "OK?" bit... I am not having a good day with the thinking so far Sigh | :sigh:

Greg Utas16-Jul-21 0:10

Greg Utas

16-Jul-21 0:10

My understanding is that a ? is an indicator that there is no separate definition, that the entire clue is essentially the definition, but in a contrived way.

The OK would be a brilliant addition: 0 degrees Kelvin.

Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

DerekT-P16-Jul-21 0:16

DerekT-P

16-Jul-21 0:16

... and wouldn't then need the question mark... unless 0 and O are not sufficiently equivalent in clues?

Re: Handy Hints For Spies

Greg Utas16-Jul-21 0:54

Greg Utas

16-Jul-21 0:54

Good question. I'd probably leave it in, because the characters do look different.

Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

Handy Hints For Spies

5teveH15-Jul-21 20:01

5teveH

15-Jul-21 20:01

I've just finished Homeland S5, (yes, I know I'm late to the party), and seem to have spent quite a lot of time, shouting at the TV, telling them not to be so stupid. They don't even seem to be able to get the basics of spying right! On the assumption that the CIA are monitoring everything, I thought I'd post a couple of 'handy hints' for them on The Lounge:

1. Rule number 1 of being a hostage, (surely?). If one of your captors decides he wants to help you: Don't send him off to find the poisonous gas canister - and not come back. Do get him to set you free. Simple!
2. The dead baddy's phone. If the dead baddy, (conveniently?), hasn't protected his phone with a Pin No.: Don't just dial the last number used; hang up, (thinking: "no idea who that is!"); and forget all about it. Do, use some very clever 'track and trace system', (that only the CIA have), to identify who the number belongs to - and their location, down to the nearest square metre.

I'm pretty sure following basic rules like this is going to save them lots of time - and, maybe, cut the length of a season down to 6 episodes.

P.S. Has anyone ever wondered how Jack Bauer, (yes I know it's a different program), always manages to have it all sorted in exactly 24 hours? Surely there must have been times when he cracked it in 21 hours - and the last three episodes are him in bed sleeping? Or, after 24 hours, he's still tied up in the terrorists garage with Gaffa tape over his mouth?

OriginalGriff15-Jul-21 20:15