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Hey, we'll see! 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Is that real question? If so, would nodeJS count?
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Javascript is never the solution! 
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Innovative is the best I can come up with but I don't think it's right.
"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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You're right!
It's wrong.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Ok we surrender
"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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Wave your liddle white flags proudly!
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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I grew up kinda hard, with untreated mental illness and spent some time on the streets as a homeless teen, got my GED as a result and never went to college.
But I had hacked around on computers, programming since I was 8 years old.
When I was 18 I went from being homeless to moving in with my b/f in seattle and from there straight to Microsoft.
I started taking senior and lead positions before I was 20.
Outside of software development, for example when I moved from Seattle to rural Washington state where there were not development jobs I drove a cab, jockeyed cash registers, and even worked on a farm.
I'm not qualified to do anything skilled but write software.
I can't tell you how grateful I am that this industry values talent over credentials.
I'd be in a very different position today if it weren't for that. I have a friend I grew up with who never launched into a software career despite us programming together but his primary interest is language so I guess I understand - I learned C++, he learned Latin. I have another friend who I came up with together and helped him get into development, and then he moved to NYC and got rich, and he has a similar background as me, except not crazy. None of these people have degrees. Both are ridiculously intelligent. But it makes me think, you know?
I count myself fortunate, and I am grateful not just for me, but for anyone like me who found their way despite lack of opportunities and access to "white collar" work generally.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I think having worked on a farm is an important skill!
Any industry with common sense values talent over credentials. The ones that don't are typically licensed or unionized, which is primarily a way to reduce competition and make it more lucrative for those who are allowed in.
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I don't know. My FIL is a master electrician. Union man. Never had a degree either. He worked in a wonderbread factory before apprenticing, and then busted his behind until he got where he was at.
I'm here for trades. And frankly, I'm a member of an industrial union myself, though I work for myself, not a union shop since I don't employ anyone.
That's all I'll say on that, for fear of turning this further into a political discussion.
I'm in the distinct political minority here.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I was young, raw, and cocky. Being in a union helped me smooth those edges out and gave me the training I needed to move forward. Eventually I moved into a position that was no longer union backed, but I'm grateful that being in a union allowed me the chance to grow.
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honey the codewitch wrote: I'm in the distinct political minority here.
That's possible, but you aren't alone either. 
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One of the problems with today's business environment is the emphasis on pieces of paper rather than demonstrated skills and knowledge. However, I wouldn't want to be treated by a physician who didn't have a Medical degree and a license! For the lay person, the pieces of paper provide at least some assurance that the person holding him/herself out as an expert really is.
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If he didn't have a license, you could ask to see his his degree (most of them have it on the wall anyway) or proof of malpractice insurance, which someone unqualified would find rather hard to obtain.
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Certainly understand and agree:
"However, I wouldn't want to be treated by a physician who didn't have a Medical degree
OTOH, those EMTs coming to pick up you or your loved ones after an auto accident or a stroke or a heart attack or gun shot may have a few hundred hours of state training.
If you're lucky the EMT may have military experience too.
These people are very skill just in a limited field of first aid.
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I have a similar story but I did manage to get a degree.
Kicked out of a dysfunctional family situation at 16 with a 10th grade education, went in the military did 2 tours in Nam (20+ months). After I got home 2 years of homeless, drifting, drugs , alcohol.
Then got married, dysfunctional relationship that lasted 17 years but in that time managed to get a degree in Engineering Physics.
Nasty divorce, quit computing for 13 years and then tried to get back in but too much time had passed and couldn't keep up.
So here I am retired and still hacking, but loving it because I choose when and what I want to learn. No pressure, no deadlines, no politics, no bullshit.
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I was way too ... gender non-conforming and clearly gay to be in the military. I'm pretty sure the recruitment office would have opened fire on me if I got within 300 yards of them.
Different times.
My brother is military. So was my stepfather. It was never in the cards for me.
I'm glad though. I think if I had gone in I probably would have washed out anyway, but even if I didn't I don't think it would have put me on the career path I had. I never would have worked for Everdev (which I loved) just for example.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Yes different times indeed. Turns out that a couple of guys in my unit were gay, one highly decorated and even wrote a book. I was totally unaware he was gay, it would not have made a difference to me but at the time the military was very anal about such things and he probably would have been ostracized and booted out?
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Mike Hankey wrote: at the time the military was very anal
Um, I think perhaps the opposite.
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Yeah, there was DADT and all that. It just wasn't for me. I'm not the type.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I just lived through it.
At the time the draft was going on and my number was up so I enlisted. Probably saved my life, I went into communications instead of infantry and in 67 things over there were hot.
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I'm glad it worked out for you in the end. Elephant knows it didn't for so many. 
That war was just.. SMDH
I don't know whether to say sorry or thank you. I have ... feelings about vietnam vets that sets them apart for me from other war vets. I won't get into it for risk of making this thread political, but you (and if not you then or at least many like you - i don't want to speak for you) deserved better.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Thanks...yeah let's just leave it there.
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sorry I get emotional with certain things.
mov ax, [feelings]
xor ax,ax
There.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I think until you do
mov [feelings], ax
you won't get the desired result.
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