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I don't typically use MSVC. In fact, I don't even test my code to see if it compiles on MSVC anymore - just clang and gcc. If MSVC can't compile it, MSVC is broken, as far as I'm concerned. That's how I treat it.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I think you misunderstand me. All compilers have bugs. The question is whether standards compliant code will compile with them or not.
Sure, gcc has some bugs, and some of those bugs might impact the above, but they have a lot of catching up to do if they want to ride the Microsoft fail train. This was especially true on previous versions of MSVC, but even today they're still lagging behind clang and GCC in terms of C++ standards support.
At the end of the day, that's what I care about.
Like, as an analogy (but i don't do webdev) I don't care that Chrome may have a rendering bug. I care that it supports HTML5, so that my HTML5 code will theoretically render capably under that system. If there's a specific bug I can deal with that, but that's knowing that Google knows it's a bug and is treating it like a bug.
Consider the different approach MS took with IE. It mirrors their treatment of C++ in terms of standards.
Microsoft's lack of standards compliance isn't treated as a bug. At least historically (which I can speak to with confidence, as opposed to their specific culture and attitude *today* WRT to C++) has been that it's by design, and if you code in the Microsoft ecosystem, you just have to suck it up. Maybe they'll get around to it on the next major version, maybe not.
That's a rather marked difference in terms of what I can expect and what I can rely on when I go to design my code.
In the first case, worst case I have a conditional for Chrome, to work around the bug, and make a note of it in the source.
In the second case, I basically have to fork, because not only is it not going to be fixed, but it's probably not the only thing they *decided* to do differently.
Real programmers use butterflies
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You can run MSVC++ in C++17 mode, unlike IE which only got standards mode in betas, but not in releases.
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Fair enough. But C++20 support is still flaky
Real programmers use butterflies
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Indeed. C++20-support in MSVC++ is labeled experimental. As it is for Clang and GCC. Ok, Clang calls it's status "partial", but that doesn't read any better than "experimental".
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From CPPreference.com's compiler support page (i don't have the link handy, sorry), GCC's C++20 support looks pretty good.
Are you looking at v10 or are you considering an earlier version?
Real programmers use butterflies
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[C++ Standards Support in GCC- GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)](https://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx-status.html#cxx20)
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Mike Hankey wrote: simulators
In the late 80's I worked as a software consultant at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. One of my projects was doing the cockpit heads-up display for an F-16 simulator. The "window scenery" was based upon a camera that flew along a scale model of terrain that was around 25 feet tall and over 200 feet long. The best part was the cockpit itself. It was mounted on a huge gimbaled arm that could pitch, yaw, and roll to match the pilot's control inputs.
Unfortunately I never got to fly the simulator. This was probably a good thing, as I would have almost certainly tossed my cookies after a barrel roll or two.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I've seen those simulators, not in person and thought how cool they were. Bet they've come a long way since you worked on them?
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PEEK and POKE!
Now I feel really, really old.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Yeah, I never did understand those (PEEK & POKE) when I was back there in BASIC.
I remember doing stuff in BASIC but I never understood it. My brain just wasn't ready for it.
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Only if you actually remember using them, Chris.
I do  .
Software Zen: delete this;
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Yep, I only used them to cheat in games 
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Cool but I dont get it: he says "10-line-contest" and posts 120 lines...
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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Yeah, I thought the same thing, but the contest was something like based on 120 character lines and the .txt file that shows the code is just a representation of the code that is in the 8-bit code file so I think the .txt one is formatted nicer and that's why it doesn't look like only 10 lines. I was confused about that too.
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I used to have that I think, on the Atari 400 "computer" 
Real programmers use butterflies
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Wow, you were hard-core. Atari 400[^] had that strange press-pad membrane keyboard.
Did you actually ever type much on that thing? You must have serious biceps on your phalanges.
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I typed a few basic programs into it before taking it apart.
Real programmers use butterflies
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raddevus wrote: Anyone familiar with the code?
Do you mean, with the instructions ? Of course !
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Rage wrote: Do you mean, with the instructions
Well, I really mean the All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Codes. 
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I was speaking to a teacher at our local primary school today and she's giving the kids a rest week this week. No homework, extra time at recess, chill week all around. Usually it would be March break here but The Powers That Be have decided to postpone it till April to... I honestly don't know.
Everyone around me seem to be getting through OK. Day by day, keep to yourselves, heads down, get the work done type thing. But everyone's also a little tired and frayed.
I'm just wondering how the experience is across the pond and down south. Everyone OK or things starting to fray at the seams a little?
cheers
Chris Maunder
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My main complaint is that I am unsuited to "working from home", so this has been a rather unproductive year.
My wife has been able to stave off cabin fever by getting out and hiking. I can't imagine being cooped up in the Great White North.
(We did visit some snow a couple of times this winter. Arizona is quite diverse)
Our kid has been unaffected; he never leaves his lair anyway.
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