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Yeah but look at their C++20 support compared to GCC.
Someone should remind MS it's 2021.
I don't want to have to find out they don't support something the hard way when I'm in the middle of coding.
I'm not using C++20 at the moment, but I plan on switching over soon. If MS has been consistent about anything, it's being years behind the standards.
So I stand by the title of the post
Also if a codebase won't work with GCC I'd argue the problem is almost certainly with the codebase, not gcc.
Because
1. GCC is a modern, popular compiler that is very standards compliant compared to other offerings. If your source can't work with it you're shooting yourself in the foot
2. What about your code isn't actually C++, but really a variant of C++ involving vendor specific extensions? It's not always the issue, but I find it usually is.
Real programmers use butterflies
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And you really want to fight the new compiler bugs? It is only the second bugfix for VS 2017 that does not contain a C++ compiler fix - I guess they gave up, not finished.
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I don't typically use MSVC. In fact, I don't even test my code to see if it compiles on MSVC anymore - just clang and gcc. If MSVC can't compile it, MSVC is broken, as far as I'm concerned. That's how I treat it.
Real programmers use butterflies
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I think you misunderstand me. All compilers have bugs. The question is whether standards compliant code will compile with them or not.
Sure, gcc has some bugs, and some of those bugs might impact the above, but they have a lot of catching up to do if they want to ride the Microsoft fail train. This was especially true on previous versions of MSVC, but even today they're still lagging behind clang and GCC in terms of C++ standards support.
At the end of the day, that's what I care about.
Like, as an analogy (but i don't do webdev) I don't care that Chrome may have a rendering bug. I care that it supports HTML5, so that my HTML5 code will theoretically render capably under that system. If there's a specific bug I can deal with that, but that's knowing that Google knows it's a bug and is treating it like a bug.
Consider the different approach MS took with IE. It mirrors their treatment of C++ in terms of standards.
Microsoft's lack of standards compliance isn't treated as a bug. At least historically (which I can speak to with confidence, as opposed to their specific culture and attitude *today* WRT to C++) has been that it's by design, and if you code in the Microsoft ecosystem, you just have to suck it up. Maybe they'll get around to it on the next major version, maybe not.
That's a rather marked difference in terms of what I can expect and what I can rely on when I go to design my code.
In the first case, worst case I have a conditional for Chrome, to work around the bug, and make a note of it in the source.
In the second case, I basically have to fork, because not only is it not going to be fixed, but it's probably not the only thing they *decided* to do differently.
Real programmers use butterflies
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You can run MSVC++ in C++17 mode, unlike IE which only got standards mode in betas, but not in releases.
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Fair enough. But C++20 support is still flaky
Real programmers use butterflies
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Indeed. C++20-support in MSVC++ is labeled experimental. As it is for Clang and GCC. Ok, Clang calls it's status "partial", but that doesn't read any better than "experimental".
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From CPPreference.com's compiler support page (i don't have the link handy, sorry), GCC's C++20 support looks pretty good.
Are you looking at v10 or are you considering an earlier version?
Real programmers use butterflies
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[C++ Standards Support in GCC- GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)](https://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx-status.html#cxx20)
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Mike Hankey wrote: simulators
In the late 80's I worked as a software consultant at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. One of my projects was doing the cockpit heads-up display for an F-16 simulator. The "window scenery" was based upon a camera that flew along a scale model of terrain that was around 25 feet tall and over 200 feet long. The best part was the cockpit itself. It was mounted on a huge gimbaled arm that could pitch, yaw, and roll to match the pilot's control inputs.
Unfortunately I never got to fly the simulator. This was probably a good thing, as I would have almost certainly tossed my cookies after a barrel roll or two.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I've seen those simulators, not in person and thought how cool they were. Bet they've come a long way since you worked on them?
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PEEK and POKE!
Now I feel really, really old.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Yeah, I never did understand those (PEEK & POKE) when I was back there in BASIC.
I remember doing stuff in BASIC but I never understood it. My brain just wasn't ready for it.
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Only if you actually remember using them, Chris.
I do  .
Software Zen: delete this;
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Yep, I only used them to cheat in games 
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Cool but I dont get it: he says "10-line-contest" and posts 120 lines...
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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Yeah, I thought the same thing, but the contest was something like based on 120 character lines and the .txt file that shows the code is just a representation of the code that is in the 8-bit code file so I think the .txt one is formatted nicer and that's why it doesn't look like only 10 lines. I was confused about that too.
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I used to have that I think, on the Atari 400 "computer" 
Real programmers use butterflies
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Wow, you were hard-core. Atari 400[^] had that strange press-pad membrane keyboard.
Did you actually ever type much on that thing? You must have serious biceps on your phalanges.
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I typed a few basic programs into it before taking it apart.
Real programmers use butterflies
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raddevus wrote: Anyone familiar with the code?
Do you mean, with the instructions ? Of course !
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Rage wrote: Do you mean, with the instructions
Well, I really mean the All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Codes. 
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