Click here to Skip to main content
15,892,809 members

Welcome to the Lounge

   

For discussing anything related to a software developer's life but is not for programming questions. Got a programming question?

The Lounge is rated Safe For Work. If you're about to post something inappropriate for a shared office environment, then don't post it. No ads, no abuse, and no programming questions. Trolling, (political, climate, religious or whatever) will result in your account being removed.

 
QuestionRe: Have to vs must Pin
lopatir23-Jan-20 3:57
lopatir23-Jan-20 3:57 
AnswerRe: Have to vs must Pin
kalberts23-Jan-20 4:24
kalberts23-Jan-20 4:24 
AnswerRe: Have to vs must Pin
Stefan_Lang23-Jan-20 20:27
Stefan_Lang23-Jan-20 20:27 
AnswerRe: Have to vs must Pin
lopatir23-Jan-20 3:54
lopatir23-Jan-20 3:54 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Gerry Schmitz23-Jan-20 4:31
mveGerry Schmitz23-Jan-20 4:31 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
User 1106097923-Jan-20 4:40
User 1106097923-Jan-20 4:40 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Stefan_Lang23-Jan-20 20:47
Stefan_Lang23-Jan-20 20:47 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
kalberts23-Jan-20 22:42
kalberts23-Jan-20 22:42 
In Norwegian, it depends on where you put the stress: You must not do it ("Du må ikke gjøre det") vs. You must not do it ("Du ikke gjøre det") - I guess the difference in meaning is approximately the same in English as in Norwegian. In writing, highlighting with italics, underlining or boldface may, for a variety of reasons be undesirable, so you may be missing a way to indicate your intetion.

We have other cases similar to your example. You need not do it ("Du trenger ikke gjøre det") would never be considered a negation of "do it", but of "need" (so it behaves differently from "must"). Moving on to "can", you can have a whole series of meanings depending on the stress, and the "not" ("Du kan [ikke] gjøre det"):

You can climb that wall. (maybe the others can't)
You can climb that wall (if you just do your best)
You can climb that wall (wow! I didn't know that)
You can not climb that wall (you are not old enough)
You can not climb that wall (stop pretending that you can)
You can not climb that wall (I do not allow you to do it)
You can not climb that wall (that would be just crazy)

and so on. (Depending on context, the interpretation may be somewhat different.)

I have met immigrants who have learned to speak Norwegian almost completely free of accent, but they reveal themselves as non-native speakers by not mastering the meaning of all stress patterns, or by the word order: Two alternatives may both be valid, but with somewhat different meanings, often when "not" is involved: I am not planning to go to London, vs. I am planning not to go to London.

I heard Vera Henriksen, author of Viking age novels and prominent translator of old Norse litterature to modern Norwegian, talk about the problems of translating the poetry: The Norse language (like modern German) made use of seveal cases, i.e. inflected forms to indicate e.g. the role of an actor. We have got a few traces of it left: He hit him, or Him he hit. In the Norse poetry, you have great freedom in the word order, and the poetic rythm depends on it. But in a direct translation to modern Norwegian, the same word order is illegal, meaningless or has a different meaning. If you reorder it according to modern grammatical rules, the rythm is completely ruined. It takes a skilled author to do an honest translation, rather than to re-invent the text!
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Stefan_Lang24-Jan-20 1:36
Stefan_Lang24-Jan-20 1:36 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
kalberts24-Jan-20 1:56
kalberts24-Jan-20 1:56 
AnswerRe: Have to vs must Pin
raddevus23-Jan-20 4:43
mvaraddevus23-Jan-20 4:43 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
kalberts23-Jan-20 7:04
kalberts23-Jan-20 7:04 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Kaladin23-Jan-20 4:55
Kaladin23-Jan-20 4:55 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Stefan_Lang23-Jan-20 20:56
Stefan_Lang23-Jan-20 20:56 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Kaladin24-Jan-20 1:41
Kaladin24-Jan-20 1:41 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Stefan_Lang24-Jan-20 2:03
Stefan_Lang24-Jan-20 2:03 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Nelek24-Jan-20 2:21
protectorNelek24-Jan-20 2:21 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Mark_Wallace23-Jan-20 5:55
Mark_Wallace23-Jan-20 5:55 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
dandy7223-Jan-20 6:46
dandy7223-Jan-20 6:46 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Mark_Wallace23-Jan-20 19:49
Mark_Wallace23-Jan-20 19:49 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
kalberts23-Jan-20 23:09
kalberts23-Jan-20 23:09 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Mark_Wallace24-Jan-20 0:36
Mark_Wallace24-Jan-20 0:36 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
dandy7224-Jan-20 4:03
dandy7224-Jan-20 4:03 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Mark_Wallace24-Jan-20 4:56
Mark_Wallace24-Jan-20 4:56 
GeneralRe: Have to vs must Pin
Stefan_Lang23-Jan-20 21:15
Stefan_Lang23-Jan-20 21:15 

General General    News News    Suggestion Suggestion    Question Question    Bug Bug    Answer Answer    Joke Joke    Praise Praise    Rant Rant    Admin Admin   

Use Ctrl+Left/Right to switch messages, Ctrl+Up/Down to switch threads, Ctrl+Shift+Left/Right to switch pages.