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I was working in a group that were growing too large, so it had to be split into three, with separate group leaders, and we were discussing what would be the "ideal" background for a group leader. We found that the ideal would be a person with a formal management training, and preferably some experience, working with us for a year as an apprentice to see what we are really doing, what are our daily problems and issues and mode of work.
After one year working at the floor, he would probably be a much better manager, from our point of view, than if he was simply brought in from the street and put in an management position, no matter how good a management education he might have.
(No - we did not get what we wanted. The most experienced technical guys advanced to a management position, without really knowing what managment is about.)
On the other hand, the sales side: When your customer is technically competent, rather than an end user man-in-the-street, nothing beats having a salesman who can explain how every single bit flows, can make qualified estimates of the work required for customer demands etc. Salesmen who knows all the buzzwords and nothing else are worse than non-technical managers, who at least know something about management.
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Technical vs. non-technical isn't the factor for me -- it's clued-in vs. clueless.
The best manager I had was non-technical, but I didn't know it for 3 months. He educated himself on the technologies so he could speak intelligently, yet relied on in-depth knowledge of others when making decisions. I worked for the guy 3 months before I learned he wasn't technical -- he was sales.
The worst manager I had was highly technical, but a PHB. Completely clueless about everything, and relied upon similar people for his 'facts' while dismissing the the folks that actually knew something.
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(Note: this a govt IT dept)
My team's immediate manager is completely non-technical, though our director, when hiring him, led us to believe he was very knowledgeable. As it turns out, he is not. At all. I don't think he could use a calculator effectively. It grinds my gears that the status report we are required to update constantly lists him as "manager" on all our projects, and that he makes more $$ than me, the team lead. Amongst ourselves, we refer to him as "meatloaf". Having status meetings with him is an exercise in futility as I have to explain things multiple times and I'm sure he still does not understand anything. I find non-technical managers tend to focus on the idiotic things they can control and grasp, like "some of your people were late punching in this month" (yeah, we punch in/out, like we work at a supermarket). Yeah, OK, they're late. They're also very talented and productive, and turning out excellent work every day, so give it a rest. I guess, in my case, it's not so much meatloaf is non-technical, it's that he's stupid. But, that's the plague of working in government. Sometimes I wonder what the hell is gonna happen here when I'm gone...
(edit:grammer)
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There's gotta be a Dilbert comic in there somewhere.
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The best bosses I have worked with had genuine humility. And it didn't matter what their level of technical knowledge was.
The worst bosses I have worked with were arrogant. And it didn't matter what their level of technical knowledge was.
Cheers,
Mike Fidler
"I intend to live forever - so far, so good." Steven Wright
"I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met." Also Steven Wright
"I'm addicted to placebos. I could quit, but it wouldn't matter." Steven Wright yet again.
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My current manager is both arrogant and uses an authoritarion management style. He neither shields us from outside abuse nor does he do anything to help work efforts. The problem I that I have had is that I have worked for truly worse and keep sticking my neck out. I have had great managers both technical and non-technical and have found that although it may be a factor, it doesn't determine which is the better boss or manager.
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Agreed.
(I truly hope your current manager doesn't frequent The Lounge.  )
Cheers,
Mike Fidler
"I intend to live forever - so far, so good." Steven Wright
"I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met." Also Steven Wright
"I'm addicted to placebos. I could quit, but it wouldn't matter." Steven Wright yet again.
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His background before this position was hardware and he barely knows our industry. The odds are stacked deeply in my favor that he would never visit Code Project at all.
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Good managers put people in a position to succeed; bad ones throw people at projects without doing analysis of what skills the project needs.
Good managers hire smart people and trust them to make good decisions, or to raise flags if they don't have the skills/experience to make a good decision. In that latter case, good managers find the right resource to be another opinion (which may be themselves, if they are technical and experienced in that area). Bad managers don't trust their employees, or are unwilling to consider alternatives.
All that being said, I prefer an at-least-somewhat technical manager. By that I mean, someone who understands data and relationships, and can have that sort of conversation, even I they don't know the nuts-and-bolts of schemas, application development, etc. If we model the data well, we've got a good foundation on which we can build the application layers.
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In my experience they are all terrible, rude, authoritarian, arrogant, and in general stupid. However, there is one rare exception; non-technical managers who know they are non-technical and as result stay out of the technical details letting me do the project properly...
However, as I said, this has been a rarity...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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I have found the best success in having
1. A non-technical manager
2. A technical lead.
The non-technical manager is an HR manager, the time off manager. They can help with sprints, and planning, but not costing, and not how to do something. Has one-on-ones. Keeps team unity. Plans activities. Helps keep communication open (especially with a bunch of introvert engineers)
Tech lead - Is the mentor technically. Has technical one-on-ones to make sure each team member is increasing their skill level.
The problems with a technical manager is that most engineers:
1. Don't have the skills to be a good manager, because it is hard, and takes a lot of training, and they are never trained. So it takes them three to five years to be any good and by then, they already have a bad rap.
2. Many will never have social skills to be a good manager.
3.
As always there are exceptions to the norm. Great technical managers and great non-technical managers exist. But on average, I find the best harmony when a non-technical manager is combined with a tech lead.
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Thanks for the SARS clip. O M G . . .
I guess it depends on the size of the department. I am the technical manager, and I'm reasonably successful. Myself I prefer a non-technical manager, my boss is an accountant, but he is technical enough that he can back me up sometimes. I call on him when I need people help, when we have policy issues that require conformance or if I am trying to schedule something big - and of course around budgeting projects.
In a bigger company, I have seen mixed results from a non-technical CIO. The problem with that is that the honchos put the person in the area to achieve a business goal, not really aligned with operations. So she was there for a little while on the way to another position.
It's not her fault exactly, but the corporation outsourced all of IT as of 1/1/2000. It was a nightmare. My entire team and I left over 6 months. (Me: After I rehired for my position of course) Chasing "shareholder value" can be destructive. It was the non-technical managers who bought the crack the salesman was selling. 
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I would love to have manager that has technical abilities. Unfortunately I get some people who are looking at log files and are screaming WITCHCRAFT - BURN IT.
If you can read log file and decide that you don’t need to involve whole team and ask everyone around to participate you are gold.
If there is some configuration issue because someone forgot to change setting or add setting to a file, and don’t have to involve 5 people to fix it you are gold.
If there is small irrelevant code issue that slipped past through code review,
and QA and you can fix it on your own before demo for stakeholders instead of screaming that there is issue bringing end of the world you are gold.
For such person it is easier to maintain faith in your team because they know small issue in config is not some hidden dragon. It is a lot easier for technical person to grasp possibilities of technical team.
Maybe it is only my ego but I really get annoyed when people make fuss over stuff that I can fix in 2 minutes. Especially when they go around screaming that sky is falling and reality is that when you read log files it is perfectly understandable issue. Even more annoying when they send log statement with exception to you and it is perfectly literal exception message like “cannot connect to 3'rd party X” and 3'rd party X is down, but somehow their comprehension goes wild…
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What did one tectonic plate say to the other?
Sorry, that was my fault.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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I was quaking in my boots when I read that answer.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I hope it won't cause a fissure in our relationship.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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This is cracking me up!
Don't take a joke of this magnitude for granite!
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I'm quaking with laughter 
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If the Easter Bunny was a day late, would that make you hopping mad?
The best way to improve Windows is run it on a Mac.
The best way to bring a Mac to its knees is to run Windows on it.
~ my brother Jeff
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I see you're trying to egg on OG.
/ravi
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Not hiding anything.
The best way to improve Windows is run it on a Mac.
The best way to bring a Mac to its knees is to run Windows on it.
~ my brother Jeff
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So I want this[^] to proceed. Please.
I've used Macbook Airs for years, then switched to the Macbook Pro and immediately regretted it because the keyboard is beyond awful and I get about 2 hrs battery life (That's from full charge, running only VS, but working steadily). I'd get easily 5-6 on a Macbook Air.
I desperately wanted the Surface Pro 6 or Laptop 2 to be great but they stuck with proprietary 1980-style chargers, and for me it's USB-C or nothing. Once you get used to plugging in a single cable for your charging, video, USB and sound it's hard (and regressive) to go back to multiple cables.
So given that the iPad Pro is USB-C, is faster than 92% of laptops currently on the market, is crazy thin and light and doesn't require me to remove it from my backpack at airports, I want it as my primary development machines which means I need Visual Studio on it.
Please.
I've been waiting for the "perfect" laptop for over 20 years now, and I honestly do think it won't happen. We'll move over to using tablets or even phones as our primary device and laptops will go the way of desktop PCs. Maybe Qualcomm will make a Snapdragon chip that can compete with an i7 and then things will get interesting.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: We'll move over to using tablets or even phones as our primary device and laptops will go the way of desktop PCs.
I'm not sure.
I've tried writing code on a tablet - the Nexus 7 and the WookieTab - and it's been a miserable experience, all because of the keyboard. You think the Macbook Pro KB is bad? Try it on tablet! Particularly if you are a touch (or even a fast multi finger) typist it's a major exercise in frustration.
And while predictive input on Android is great for letters, posts, SMS, and email it elephants your code like nobody's business. Just the auto capitalisation after a "." is enough to drive you to the arms of a "proper keyboard" ...
I don't think we'll move to tablet / phone until we find a better input method - and the first person to suggest "voice input" should be defenestrated...
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: defenestrated
I've been thinking of moving away from windows for a while now...
Speaking of typing on a tablet, the iOS thing where it constantly selects random words while you're typing which causes you to type over words or whole sentences is mind boggling.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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