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Ah, well that makes sense.
Then would an external optical drive be a viable solution here, thus not using up a SATA port (have it run off of USB)?
modified 26-Oct-18 8:28am.
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External USB drives are pretty pricey as well - and some require their own power connection. I have an old xbox HD-DVD external drive. I'm tempted to take it out of the case it's in and put it in a box (if it's IDE inside).
I also have an USB Blu-ray drive I could to the same thing with.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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It's been something like a decade since new mobo's stopped including IDE cable plugs, I'm honestly mildly surprised that such drives are still available new at all.
I'm guessing the prices you see are a combination of reflecting what they cost to make a number of years ago + cumulative warehouse costs for storing them for a number of years vs SATA drives whose inventory turns over rapidly.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Dan Neely wrote: It's been something like a decade since new mobo's stopped including IDE cable plugs
I didn't authorize that change... I'm going to find out who's responsible, and "take care of the problem".
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Let's see:
Intel and AMD for dropping it from the chipsets. All the mobo makers for deciding that adding a few dollars to the cost to include an extra controller for it after most users were full SATA everywhere.
If you still really want an IDE port you can get cheap expansion cards to add one, otoh if you're trying to cram as many HDD's into a box as possible you could get a SATA card with 4-8 ports instead and use all but one of them for HDDs.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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I found a motherboard with eight SATA ports (and an eSATA connector), but I don't really feel like re-building my file server (because CPU and RAM as well).
OTOH, rebuilding the server would be cheaper than buying an 8-bay SATA enclosure by about $60 - and wouldn't require YAWP (yet another wall plug).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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At the point of being even in cost, I'd lean toward full replacement if your old server's more than a few years old just to buy more time before an expected failure as well.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Eight SATA ports is fairly common, isn't it? I've got several motherboards with 8 SATAs.
Furthermore: From the old days when SATA was still new, I've had laying around a PCI card providing 4 extra SATA sockets. Those were SATA 2.0, but my disks were SATA 2 as well, so that wasn't any limitation. (I decided to buy larger disks, so now I don't use it.)
Checking mail order stores, I see that I can buy an 8 port SATA 3.0 PCI Express card for less than NOK 1000 (that is, slightly above 100 Euro). If you don't need 8 of them, you can get a card for NOK 200 (roughly 20 Euro) with 2 internal connectors, 2 external eSATA - that is for PCI, not PCI Express, and it supports only SATA 1.0. Obviously this is an old model, but if your motherboard is old, it may not provide PCI Express slots.
Google for e.g. "ST Lab PCI SATA 2P eSATA/SATA" for the 2+2 SATA 1.0 board, "ST Lab PCIe SATA 6G 8channel" for the modern 8 port SATA 3.0 board.
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Member 7989122 wrote: Eight SATA ports is fairly common, isn't it?
Not at all. Most motherboards have just four. All of the boards I have right now only have four.
My media server already has four built-on SATA ports (no IDE), and a four-port add-on card as well. I'm almost out of space for drives - I currently have a boot drive, a dvd player, and six media drives - I can physically support four/five more (in terms of space in the case), or even one more if I let the (SSD) boot drive rest in the bottom of the case.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Member 7989122 wrote: Eight SATA ports is fairly common, isn't it? I've got several motherboards with 8 SATAs.
On high end boards yes, otherwise generally not.
Using Newegg's filtering functions and looking at current mainstream socket boards:
On the AMD side of the 867 AM4 boards listed 9 have 10 sata ports, 98 have 8, 420 have 6, 340 4. All of the 8/10 port boards are full ATX oe EATX. The smaller mATX/mITX form factors that would normally look reasonable in a server top out at 6 or 2 ports.
For Intel's 300 series LGA 1151 boards (again current mainstream socket), only 13 of 1436 have 8 sata ports, although at least 2/3rds have 6. The 8 port boards are all full ATX, although at least you can get 6 of them on a file server friendly mITX board. 8 ports was more common on older Intel boards. I suspect the reason it's less so now is that due to the way their chipsets are setup, each m.2 ssd slot shares resources with a SATA port; and not being able to use both at once almost certainly caused some degree of customer confusion and with m.2 being the forward looking port they're eliminating it by cutting the number of sata connectors.
Going farther up the stack, most LGA2066 and almost half of thread ripper boards have 8 sata ports; but for a simple file server those platforms are massive and expensive overkill.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Dan Neely wrote: I'm honestly mildly surprised that such drives are still available new at all.
I still have a box somewhere (granted, not new) with half a dozen CDROM drives with a SCSI interface. And as many spare caddies (link for those who aren't aware these were a thing)
modified 26-Oct-18 12:46pm.
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That's funny.
The first time I showed a relative of mine the process of burning a CD he was expecting to see sparks.
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How old was your relative?
I was probably 8 or 10 at the time of my story.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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I don't recall, but he was an adult...
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You could maybe use a SATA to IDE adapter / converter?
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Do they really exist?
The other way around: Yes. To be able to access old IDE disks from newer computers with SATA interface only - that makes sense. (Although I think most IDE-to-something are IDE-to-USB, rather than SATA).
Is there really a market for converters to make a modern SATA disk work on a PC so old that it doesn't have a SATA interface? If it doesn't have SATA (or to few SATAs), most users would plug the SATA disk into a SATA-to-USB interface, e.g. to access it from a portable that may be quite up-to-date, but doesn't have the physical space for another SATA disk. The only real need for SATA-to-IDE is for computers so old that they haven't got a USB interface. I've got one of those in my private computer museum, but I don't think I will ever connect a SATA disk to it!
While a SATA-to-IDE adapter would be technically feasible, I doubt that it would be commercially feasible.
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I stumbled over an interesting (Australian) website and found this:
Quote: The problem we are now facing is that this all requires some logistical problems to be solved. The most important one of which is that there are not one hundred thousand 1802 microprocessor chips on planet Earth. So we are working with a Chinese electronics manufacturing company who already has ties to Intersil to re-produce the CDP1802. This is good news for all 1802 hobbyists, because the chips will now be readily available at very affordable prices. (yes, customers will eventually see the savings reflected in product prices)
And the good news on top of that is that, whilst we are re-producing the 1802, we are also going to re-produce the rarer than hens' teeth, Unobtainium CDP1861 Pixie display chip, and the other CDP18XX display and sound chips, so now those will also be available again. Also at very affordable prices. Expect new products to be available soon that will use these new-old chips. (no more pseudo-1861s) So the good news keeps getting better.
Jurassic Park is in Australia? They probably found mosquitos in amber, which had bitten CDP18XX chips and plan to extract the DNA?
I will patiently wait to see where this goes. I think you can still order the CDP1802 as a high reliability processor at a horrendous price of about 200 bucks each, but that would probably be a little too expensive. If it must be an imitation, it should be a good one. White ceramic packages[^] and golden contacts. And you guys will get none of mine!
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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I never programmed the 1802, but I sort of long back to the days when you could follow every bit inside the machine, know where it was flowing, and why. You had full control. You knew what was happening.
I started computer studies when 16-bit minis were the norm. The student lab got hold of a retired Nord-10 computer for our hobby projects, with super-fancy interrupt system, advanced memory management. We had full source listing of the OS; it was an interactive multiuser, real time OS, a full file system, yet only about 60K source lines. We could trace every system call. When I had something not working as explected, a fellow student asked in dead earnest: Have you single stepped through the microcode to trace what goes on? That was fully possible, but I think he was the only one doing it.
Or: For a few weeks, during heavy construction work, disks had to be turned off at nighttime; they couldn't handle the vibrations. That didn't stop one student group developing a game: They loaded all their stuff into memory before the "Turn off disk" alarm went off, and replaced the interrupt handlers of the OS with their own, mimicking all the system services that their game required for running, so they could run a full memory resident system with disks turned off.
Those were the days... Try to get anything even close to similar fingertip control with a latest-generation IA64 CPU. Not even with Linux will you know everything that is going on in the OS (oh, Linux guys will claim that it is poosible, but that is only in theory!); with Windows it is completely impossible.
For a period, about 6-8 years ago, again I got the feeling of total control, when I programmed 8051 chips, with no OS support. (We made our own monitor.) When we switched to ARM chips, programming did become a lot easier, but it was the first move to again loose control. The monitor became far more complex; none of the developers can explain in detail more than their little corner of it. Now it is being replaced by a fullblown OS, mostly developed by others.
For my hobby activities, I strive to reduce complexity, to keep control as much as possible. I won't go as far back as to the 1802, but playing around with Arduinos gives more satisfaction than fighting to understand WPF event routing. 
So I can very well undertstand those who take the KISS principle literally, and go for 1802.
Bonus chatter:
When I was a boy, I din't pick apart alarm clocks, but (cheap) cameras. Then, $10 Instamatic 126-format cameras (which was all a ten year old could spare) had two exposure alternatives: "Sunny" and "Cloudy". The handbook claimed it was 1/60 and 1/30 sec. Picking the camera apart, I learned how winding to the next frame would buckle a spring that, when the shutter release button was pressed, would kick away the black metal tounge behind the lens for a brief exposure, before bouncing back and locking in the covering position.
Now if I set the switch for "Sunny", a small pin was moved into the bouncing path of the metal tounge. So, it didn't move as far but bounced back (on this pin) earlier that when the pin was retracted. That was the entire mechanism for providing two shutter speeds: A pin in the path of the metal tounge. I was truly amazed at the extreme simplicity.
I guess precision was so-and-so, and I wouldn't want something like that in my $2000 SLR. Yet I am still fascinated by how super simple solutions can do the job. (With an Instamatic 50, it really didnt matter if shutter speed was 1/60 or 1/100 sec; it was most likely several f-stops away from the "correct" exposure in any case).
If an 1802 will do, why use a 3.6 GHz 12-core IA64 CPU for the task?
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Cus' in 'Murica, why use a jeweler's hammer when 15 pound sledge will still work. 
if (Object.DividedByZero == true) { Universe.Implode(); }
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That sounds a lot like Chris' description of the CodeProject server cluster I read over 20 years ago. In fact, it sounds like someone is planning an upgrade!
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: That sounds a lot like Chris' description of the CodeProject server cluster I read over 20 years ago. In fact, it sounds like someone is planning an upgrade!
CP turns 19 on 15-11-2018 Western Hemisphere dates, of course here the the more futuristic Eastern Hemisphere we're a day advanced.
CP was born on my (Eastern Hemisphere date) 31st birthday. So a bits a maths should tell you how old I am in 20 days when our birthdays come around again.
Michael Martin
Australia
"I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible."
- Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I rounded up - so shoot me! 
It still sounds like the original description of the server, though I think we were using obsolete palm pads or some such. The 1802s ought to be a huge improvement.
Will Rogers never met me.
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My silly comp keeps acting up on me...
Should I reboot it or kick it again?
"If we don't change direction, we'll end up where we're going"
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