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Quote: Sous Vide
How often do you eat food, made in it?
As I cook a lot myself, I checked on it when it came to my attention, and found that MoH came forward against this form of cooking as it is full of bacteria... As a way to overcome it they propose a minimum temperature of 55 C and 4 times the original (traditional?) cooking time...
In my case I do cook a nice cut for 2.5-3 hours closed, then 10 minutes on the open... so take 4 times of it will move the 10 hours least... Sounds me way too much...
How your times and temperatures?
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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The research I did says the opposite: the reason recommendations say "cook chicken until the core temp is 75C" is that at the temp bacteria die almost immediately, and you can achieve 7 log10 reduction in salmonella bacteria even with idiots doing the cooking.*
But that's not the only way to do it. Just as with humans, heat our core to 75C and we are dead - but lock us in a room at 55C for two hours and we are just as dead at the end! Bacteria are affected by heat the same way: long exposure to a lower (but still lethal) temperature also achieves seven 10s.
There's some research here: How to Cook Sous Vide Chicken Breast | The Food Lab | Serious Eats[^]
And also this: Guidelines for restaurant sous vide cooking safety in British Columbia[^] if you like a lot more pages and a Government stamp of approval! 
Me? I cook chicken Sous Vide @ 65C for 2.5 hours and it's really good!
The amount of time you cook for depends a lot on the actual meat - each animal is a set of different proteins which react differently to temperature. Where a beef joint with be juicy and edible at the end of 18 hours (but have little texture) my first experiment with lamb leg gave us "slimy baby food" at the same exposure period. Lamb I now do for 2.5 hours at 57C which gives nice "red meat" with moisture, and texture; Beef gets about 4 hours @ 56C so it has some "chew" to it. A quick sear (30secs per side) to start the Maillard reaction going and it's ready.
* 7 log10 (or "seven 10s") means you start with 10,000,000 bacteria living on your food, and at the end of the process you have just 1
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Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I have noticed how much they are used these days in Great British Menu et al.; and their food always looks wonderful. Not quite sure that we would use one often enough to justify it.
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The one I have at the moment costs less than £100, and is just the circulator / heater / control unit - you clamp it to a suitable vessel like a large saucepan. (I multipurposed my deep fat fryer: it holds 8l of oil, so it's plenty big enough - with a 1/2 gastronorm lid it's about perfect.)
As to justification, it means you can use cheaper cuts of meat, and get better results: ASDA rump steak with full flavour but the texture of fillet for example.
I'm on my second and wouldn't be without one!
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Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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It seems that your temperatures are fit the MoH guidelines, time is a different matter of course...
In 2.5/3 hours I was talking about what we call 'roast beef' here - it needs slow cooking to soften and has a line of fat in the middle...
I may after all convince me wife to get me one - maybe next birthday...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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They aren't that expensive: I paid about £100 for mine, and an extra £8 for the lid to multipurpose my deep fat fryer to a Sous Vide: Anova Precision Cooker 4.0 | Anova Culinary[^] - I'd ignore the WiFi claims, I have yet to find it reliable enough to use.
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Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I can't find Anova dealers here, but saw CIRCU DELUXE for ~£250 with two cooking boxes and a vacuum machine and a 100 bugs for start with...
Which means that is definitely not big money - I only have to check the quality of it (I know it's 1500 watt, but nothing else for now)...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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The vacuum machine is needed - the ziplock bags are useless and next to impossible to clean out.
I use a Foodsaver V2860 which is four plus years old now and still working fine.
The individual bags are OK, but I buy the embossed rolls which is a bit more flexible - you can use a "deeper" or "shallower" bag as you need, and I spend around £30 per year on rolls (that works out about 90m by 28cm of rolls). But then everything that can gets vacuum sealed and dumped in the freezer - I buy a couple of kilo of chicken breast and bag 'em as two * 125g breasts so it's a meal for two, and trimmings get cooked sous vide and bagged in two person portions for curries and stir fries, so I get through a lot of bags!
Does Amazon not stock them in Israel?
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Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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OriginalGriff wrote: Amazon
Buy from Amazon or such includes a nice portion of shipping, which makes it - in most cases - way too expensive. Plus it have to pass customs, that may - or may not if you are lucky - cut their bits... Not to mention that certain items has a 'This item does not ship to' tag on it...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: found that MoH came forward against this form of cooking as it is full of bacteria...
So this MoH is also against the use of yoghurt and cheese? How about a Limburger where the maggots come crawling if you open the package?
Don't immediatly panic when hearing "bacteria"; the amount of (foreign DNA) bacteria in/on you outnumber your own cells by 10 to 1.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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They do not talk about bacteria of yogurt and cheese... but more serious, like salmonella - I just simplified the term, to spare me the translation...
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Limburger
If it comes with maggots built in, the chances to made it into Israel is negligible...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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As long as you don't try to cook meat that has been in the sun for three hours, you should be fine. If you need to burn the bacteria off, you're already taking too much risk.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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What they actually wrote there, that cooking a chunk of meat at 45 C for 20 hours will make it into a 'hotbed' of bacteria - if it had a few now it has millions... Even it was super-fresh meat... So they advise to use it only with certain temperatures (over 55) and with minimum times (that depends)...
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge". Stephen Hawking, 1942- 2018
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45 degrees is unhealthy for most becteria; that's why we do yeast in luke-warm water before adding it to the dough. You could heat it up more and pasteurize it, but that will not kill everything. Even if you sterilize it, it could still become contaminated later on.
The key here is washing your hands, often, and to keep food clean, cool and separated. Most salmonella is in the gut, and there could be a small colony on the outside of the meat. It's usually not throughout the entire meat; the surface area is the most risky one.
I used to cook all my meats until "over well done" for safety - destroying most flavor. Turns out you can eat some beef even raw (unless it has been sitting in the sun). The only thing I'm not allowed are stuff like oisters and such - something about a nono-virus? (Google doesn't recognize it, so I may be wrong again).
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Mmmmm....bacon with honey!
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Meaningless drivel isn't appreciated here: if you have something to say, you are more than welcome to post it, provided it follows the guidelines at the top of the page.
But random keyboard mashing will not make you any friends...
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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OriginalGriff wrote: Meaningless drivel isn't appreciated here:
LOL!!! 99% of the posts are meaningless drivel here!!
 
I'd rather be phishing!
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No, very few are meaningless. Content free, yes. Useless, yes.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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recent whatsapp convo with the kids: a few messages had comments about ducks (the animals, not any alternative / sound-alike ... long story, but really "duck" is the animal)
but
every time I type/tap the letters d u c while it suggests "duck" it always also suggests "f*ck"
I thought these [google] keyboards are supposed to be smart and remember what words you used recently, well in messaging I've never sent the f-word, ever. I know some things better not to write down... I say it plenty, but never messaged it.
why no family safe filter on outgoing?
why no family-safe filter on auto-correct?
(best would be default on and settable / overidable by recipient or per message).
for ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) 's sake I'm messaging my kids, and while they can be annoying little shites this is not one of those times I want to be owned by auto-correct if typing in a hurry.
Message Signature
(Click to edit ->)
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Probably because the "d" and "f" keys are right beside each other on a standard keyboard - so a "d/f swap" is a very high likelihood mistyping. And is a common word these days, it doesn't have the same impact it did on our parents.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Lopatir wrote: I say it plenty,
Bingo. Your phone listens to you.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Suwannee | Mike Hankey | Flickr[^]
Along the Suwannee River frequently.
I may not be that good looking, or athletic, or funny, or talented, or smart
I forgot where I was going with this but I do know I love bacon!
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