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No, it's not the same thing. You get to use Java for free, right? Do you really think they have to embed bugs? Bugs appear abundandly without intentionally putting them in. Fixing them is another matter. Why not use them to encourage users to become paying customers? One could argue that everyone gets what he pays for and that's not unfair.
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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CodeWraith wrote: Do you really think they have to embed bugs? Bugs appear abundantly without intentionally putting them in.
It is often said that by the time you've worked out all the bugs in a piece of software, it has become obsolete. So to avoid my software becoming obsolete, I leave in a bug or two.
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swampwiz wrote: I find this similar to the old scam of giving away free storage space, and then abruptly saying that it is no longer free
Nature abhors a vacuum? (accountants abhor free-ness)
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Terry Pratchett said that Accountants know the cost of everything, and the value of nothing.
I don't think he was trying to be funny.
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Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I believe it was Oscar Wilde already.
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He had a characters - Lord Darlington - say that about a cynic in "Lady Windemere's Fan" - The late, great pTerry was specifically talking about accountants and the way they blight everything they touch.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OIC.
Does that mean accountants are cynics by default?
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Terry Pratchett is my favorite author. If you have not read any of his works, you should.
Your quote is from Pyramids, one of the best of his many books. I think the argument between the engineer brother and the accountant brother is a warning to us all.
Engineers get so enamored with their creation they lose site of simple things like the original purpose, the cost and effect problems (I'm thinking of all you guys that design a new Language / Framework), not to mention the training issues, or what the guy paying for the product actually wanted in the first place.
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
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I think I've read every word he ever typed, often several times, and I run the "Clacks Overhead" chrome extension ...
Yes, cost is important, but value is much, much more so - and developers forget that as well in favour of "New" or "Interesting".
And the most valuable things a business needs to have, have no "cost": staff loyalty, customer loyalty, reputation. And are the easiest to throw away to save $5 on a $1000 unit.
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Yep. It is a delicate balance that needs to be maintained.
Sometimes you need to give the customer/client what they need, instead of what they say they want, but that gets pretty tricky too.
I was never much in favor of "Maurice and his Amazing Rodents". Sam Vimes is the character I identify with the most. (Except I don't have a rich wife.) "Unseen Academicals" is one of my favorites as well.
I also like Gaspode the wonder dog, the Witches, and, of course, Rincewind.
One never know for sure, Do One? -- Fats Waller
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Cohen the Barbarian for me!
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Why does that not surprise me...    
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Well the whole world is a scam !!!
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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Correction... the 50% of the world is a scam, the other 50% just dumb  
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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correction II: The world sucks, which is why the people in Australia don't fall off.
If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.
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swampwiz wrote: It seems that the provider of the open source product releases it with some embedded bugs that take a while to manifest.
I find this suspiciously similar to the old accusation that antivirus vendors employ virus developers to help promote their products, and I seriously doubt it for the same reason: there's absolutely no point going through the trouble and risk (their reputation would be destroyed if they ever got caught) when there's already so much business to go around.
Software development is hard — surely that's not news for anyone around here. Any sizable project will, regardless of its programmers efforts, have a few dozen bugs. I can totally see the likes of Oracle dragging their feet to address "free" bug reports while being more responsive for their paying customers, but there's absolutely no need for them to create bugs on their products, when we seemingly can't get rid of the damn things no matter how hard we try.
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The ONLY scam with this, as involving Oracle was the lawsuit against Google.
And that explained it all. While we programmers can use/compile/run java code under open source licensing, Oracle wants their license from the various hardware integrators, and JVM ports (potentially). And for using CERTAIN (bootstrap?) APIs, etc.
A better comparison is Netscape giving away the browser, and selling the server software, when thinking about the model. Just that the "split" isn't always clean/clear...
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If you drive into a tree, do you find out how Mercedes Bends?
Sent from my Amstrad PC 1640
Never throw anything away, Griff
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Bugatti be kidding me!
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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unless you are in a truck then you find out if its ram tough.
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Hey, no making fun of the people who hand over money to my boss to pay my paychecks!
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Fiat ruina!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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does that make it a Big Money Waster?
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A tree? You got off cheap - try hitting a lamb or genie! You can't a Ford that.
Socialism is the Axe Body Spray of political ideologies: It never does what it claims to do, but people too young to know better keep buying it anyway. (Glenn Reynolds)
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DRHuff wrote: genie
Are there many of those in your neck of the woods? 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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