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They did give her some damn good quotes:
Quote: "Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. And if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out.
Quote: Good luck, Captain. I think you are about to go where everyone has gone before.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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A_Griffin wrote: the story arc progressed far too slowly...
What was your hurry?
It allowed characters to develop in a natural way; deviated to events outside of the main plot; and in general, was a work of art with the necessary detail to give it the breath of life.
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Quote: It allowed characters to develop in a natural way
Yeah, but they didn't really, did they? Develop, I mean. Most of them were exactly the same character at the end of series 5 as at the start of series 1. Character development was not a strong point of the show. What made it strand out from other shows was the story arc and that, IMO, was painfully slow at times.
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A_Griffin wrote: Yeah, but they didn't really, did they? Develop, I mean. Most of them were exactly the same character at the end of series
Based upon that comment, it's clear that you've never seen Babylon 5 and are mistaking it for something else.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I've watched the whole series twice. The only character that really developed any was Lyta Alexander. The rest... nope. They stayed the same from start to finish.
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No, they didn't.
G'Kar? Started a bit of a hate filled buffoon - ended up a spiritual leader preaching peace (who strangled an emperor for very good reasons)
Londo? Two dimensional idiot, who did what he had to regardless of what was going to happen to him in the end.
They all grew as characters into "real people" rather than the cardboard cut-outs you get in most series, particularly science fiction (Dr Who take note).
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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A_Griffin wrote: the story arc progressed far too slowly...
I beg to differ - the Shadow War story arc ended far too quickly! (Mostly because of Studio pressures - they were adamant that there would be no series 5, so it all had to be wrapped up by the end of Series 4. Then of course just before the last episode was broadcast, Season 5 was renewed, so the final episode of S4 became the final episode of S5 and the first episode of S5 was broadcast as the end of Season 4 ... Confused? You won't be, after this episode of "Soap"!
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AH, Soap - now there was a good series! 
Thing is though, they cold have wrapped the whole thing up in three series if it hadn't been padded out with episodes that went nowhere.... a bit more excitement and they may have got the go ahead to make more. I'm not surprised the studio wanted to end it, as they weren't going anywhere with it. Which they could have.
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At the urging of a friend of mine, I tried to watch B5 during its initial run, and actually gave it more than a fair chance and watched its entire first season. I thought it was just dreadful.
I'm more of a Trekker, and even though each incarnation's early seasons had their stinkers, they at least had a few episodes here and there that made it worth sticking with them. By contrast, I found no redeemable quality in B5.
It must be something specific about J. Michael Straczynski, because - I'm not exaggerating - I also watched both Jeremiah and Sense8 (or tried to watch them) and, without ever realizing he was actually involved, my first thought in each instance was that "this is bad on Babylon 5 level". Seems like I can somehow smell this guy's work a mile away.
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Season One was dreadful - really, it was pretty poor. But unfortunately you really need to plod through it to get the most out of the rest - and, my own criticisms notwithstanding, it does improve, greatly.
Personally I found Star Trek boring, and poorly acted. Voyager was alright, at least it had some more interesting characters and a sense of humour, but none of the rest of the ST franchise does much for me.
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If a show needs more than a season to find its stride - especially back at a time when a season meant a full two dozen episodes - then it's off my list.
As for Voyager - to me this one's near the bottom of the list, because by that time they had seriously run out of ideas. Of course that might not be that obvious if you haven't already seen everything that came before it.
Only Enterprise is worse.
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Of the list given, Star Trek.
As others have said, Babylon 5 trumps all of them.
I enjoyed the 'older' Dr. Who - starting watching it with Tom Baker in the '80s.
Was excited about the new Dr. Who and watched it on and off... but not for a while.
Of Star Trek: original, TNG, DS-9 and Discovery; detested Voyager and never watch Enterprise.
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Enterprise is pretty good
- first Enterprise in space didn't even have big phasers on the ship
- captain didn't always take the high-road; much more human
- no prime directive
- no federation
- sort of a prequel
Also, I've seen 1-8 of "Star Trek Continues[^]"
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I hadn't heard of it... will look into it.
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I used to like Enterprise, but it's getting more and more childish with every episode. 
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet!
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I second that. Enterprise is far less sterile than some of the others, and the ship really takes a beating.
It is one of the better series in the franchise.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. -- Groucho Marx
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Dr Who doesn't belong in the list. Every episode feels like they're injecting new rules of physics - very difficult/impossible to suspend disbelief. And feels like it's for kids.
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It started as a kids show.It was only while David Tennant was the Dr that it grew up a little but is now back to what it was intended to be. Torchwood was a little more adult.
Keep your friends close. Keep Kill your enemies closer.
The End
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effayqueue wrote: .And feels like it's for kids
Which it originally was.
The kid's show, (wobbly scenery, naff costumes, Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker) that I watched with my much younger brothers and, later, my own offspring, were undemanding FUN.
Unlike its pretentious and, generally, tedious 'young adults' resurrection (made for the USA?) in the 21st century.
(Ahh! That's better.  )
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Star Trek TOS. I still enjoy watching it.
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I've been re-watching Stargate SG-1 recently. I'm up to season 4 at the moment.
Favorite line to date: "... right in the middle of my back-swing?!?!"
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I watched a few episodes from series 1 last night - from where Daniel goes through the mirror into the alternate reality.
Keep your friends close. Keep Kill your enemies closer.
The End
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Not a franchise, but a worthwhile watch: Dark Matter[^].
Writing, acting, and production values are pretty good. Definitely worth a re-watch for me.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Yup, great show. 
Keep your friends close. Keep Kill your enemies closer.
The End
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