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GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
dan!sh 14-Feb-18 21:50
professional dan!sh 14-Feb-18 21:50 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Laiju k14-Feb-18 21:58
professionalLaiju k14-Feb-18 21:58 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
OriginalGriff14-Feb-18 22:04
mveOriginalGriff14-Feb-18 22:04 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
OriginalGriff14-Feb-18 22:13
mveOriginalGriff14-Feb-18 22:13 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Laiju k14-Feb-18 23:18
professionalLaiju k14-Feb-18 23:18 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
OriginalGriff14-Feb-18 23:31
mveOriginalGriff14-Feb-18 23:31 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Laiju k14-Feb-18 23:44
professionalLaiju k14-Feb-18 23:44 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
kalberts15-Feb-18 3:17
kalberts15-Feb-18 3:17 
We have had a number of lawsuits in the copyright area where the lawyers have been fighting fiercely to prove that a motif in one tune is in fact identical to (read: stolen from) a motif in another tune. But motifs are so simple that you do not have that many choices - you could by accident happen to make a motif similar to that of another song, without knowing the other.

I don't know of any case where a single motif was the only subject; it is just used as a foundation for the next step: If you vary that motif of yours (and the other) in roughly the same four ways, in the same order, as the other, then it is plagiarism. It used to be a sequence of eight (well, really 8 bars, but very often a motif has the length of a bar), but he last few years, four has been the norm.

Varying a motif can also be done in a rather limited number of ways, at least if you stay within one musical style. Learning composition, you also learn patterns of varying / repeating motifs. It is not that improbable that two composers make similar variations even if they don't know each other's works. The two 4-bar sequences may end up being 100% identical, by luck and chance, but that is certainly not required to make a lawsuit! Even if the harmonies make them appear very different, the preceeding and following bars are completely different, the third is lowered making it a minor rather than a major scale melody, ...

Can it be proven that the four bars nevertheless were "stolen"? Or if not deliberately stolen, should the second composer have known that this theme already was annexed by the first composer, now being his private property?

Is a composer required to investigate all music ever composed, to ensure that no other composer anywhere has used the same motiv, varying it over four bars, in a way similar to how he now wants to use it in his own composition? Actually, for technical inventions, that is the way it works: Before you start making money on your invention, you must check if the mechanism is already patented. But to be patented, it should be non-trivial, so that others do not accidentally do the same; it should have a certain "invention height" (that's a Norwegian term, I don't know if it is used in other laguages) - but more so in Europe than in the US, it seems. For music, it has moved in the other direction: From being non-trivial, it is reduced to the trivial where you certainly by accident may create the same note sequence as someone did before you in some other part of the world.

We have had a few similar cases in litterature: One novel accused of being a remake of an old story. Occasionally, paintings are accused of being plagiats.

For text, you do have a right to quote other works, within certain limits. If the purpose of your text is e.g. an asessment of the other, the limits are quite wide. But: You are expected to identify your source. I guess that is where the grossest mistakes are made.

Some texts are published for being quoted. Commercial companies make press releases to hundreds of media institutions, as a way to get free advertising. Often, they prefer nor to be quoted as the source, but appear as editorial stuff.

Bottom line: Plagiarism is rarely a clear cut issue.
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
CodeWraith14-Feb-18 22:23
CodeWraith14-Feb-18 22:23 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Laiju k14-Feb-18 23:25
professionalLaiju k14-Feb-18 23:25 
AnswerRe: Plagiarism Pin
megaadam14-Feb-18 22:29
professionalmegaadam14-Feb-18 22:29 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Eytukan14-Feb-18 23:13
Eytukan14-Feb-18 23:13 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Eytukan14-Feb-18 23:08
Eytukan14-Feb-18 23:08 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Pete O'Hanlon14-Feb-18 23:19
mvePete O'Hanlon14-Feb-18 23:19 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Laiju k14-Feb-18 23:22
professionalLaiju k14-Feb-18 23:22 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
OriginalGriff14-Feb-18 23:36
mveOriginalGriff14-Feb-18 23:36 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
Laiju k14-Feb-18 23:43
professionalLaiju k14-Feb-18 23:43 
GeneralRe: Plagiarism Pin
User 5924114-Feb-18 23:46
User 5924114-Feb-18 23:46 
RantDo They Even Think? Pin
GenJerDan14-Feb-18 21:05
GenJerDan14-Feb-18 21:05 
GeneralRe: Do They Even Think? Pin
dan!sh 14-Feb-18 21:17
professional dan!sh 14-Feb-18 21:17 
GeneralRe: Do They Even Think? Pin
GenJerDan14-Feb-18 21:56
GenJerDan14-Feb-18 21:56 
GeneralRe: Do They Even Think? Pin
Bassam Abdul-Baki15-Feb-18 5:40
professionalBassam Abdul-Baki15-Feb-18 5:40 
GeneralThought for flu season Pin
Duncan Edwards Jones14-Feb-18 11:25
professionalDuncan Edwards Jones14-Feb-18 11:25 
GeneralRe: Thought for flu season Pin
Slacker00714-Feb-18 22:34
professionalSlacker00714-Feb-18 22:34 
GeneralRe: Thought for flu season Pin
ZurdoDev15-Feb-18 1:59
professionalZurdoDev15-Feb-18 1:59 

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