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Member 7989122 wrote: If Google had existed in the early 1980s, a search for "bytecode" would have returned thousands of references to Pascal and its P4 bytecode format
Agreed. But that is not relevant at all.
Member 7989122 wrote: Actually, lots of interpreters for non-compiled languages of today do some compilation into some sort of bytecode
Since I have written two compilers and a number of interpreters and taken the requisite academic course related to compilers I am quite familiar with how they work.
However since most programmers, certainly not the many I have worked with, have not done either of those then I wouldn't expect them to be familiar with that. So I have no expectation that the average programmer would be either.
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That reference is saying the similarity is with the .NET Framework to the Java platform.
Don't confuse the C# Language (or any language) with the .NET Framework which facilitates "managed code" and JIT compilation, similar (and in response) to the 'Java platform' i.e. CIL(MSIL) is synonymous with Java bytecode, CLR synonymous with JRE/JVM etc.
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Member 10815573 wrote: Don't confuse the C# Language (or any language) with the .NET Framework which facilitates "managed code" and JIT compilation, similar (and in response) to the 'Java platform' i.e. CIL(MSIL) is synonymous with Java bytecode, CLR synonymous with JRE/JVM etc.
I wasn't confusing anything. C# and Java were very similar languages at the point when C# was launched and with good reason - Anders Hejlsberg (who is the lead architect on the team developing the C# language) had previously developed Microsoft's J++ language (Microsoft's discontinued implementation of Java). C# really took many of the good bits of Java while the .NET Framework mirrored the Java platform.
C Sharp (programming language) - Wikipedia
Quote: James Gosling, who created the Java programming language in 1994, and Bill Joy, a co-founder of Sun Microsystems, the originator of Java, called C# an "imitation" of Java; Gosling further said that "[C# is] sort of Java with reliability, productivity and security deleted."[17][18] Klaus Kreft and Angelika Langer (authors of a C++ streams book) stated in a blog post that "Java and C# are almost identical programming languages. Boring repetition that lacks innovation,"[19] "Hardly anybody will claim that Java or C# are revolutionary programming languages that changed the way we write programs," and "C# borrowed a lot from Java - and vice versa. Now that C# supports boxing and unboxing, we'll have a very similar feature in Java."[20] In July 2000, Anders Hejlsberg said that C# is "not a Java clone" and is "much closer to C++" in its design.[21]
Since the release of C# 2.0 in November 2005, the C# and Java languages have evolved on increasingly divergent trajectories, becoming somewhat less similar. One of the first major departures came with the addition of generics to both languages, with vastly different implementations. C# makes use of reification to provide "first-class" generic objects that can be used like any other class, with code generation performed at class-load time.[22] Furthermore, C# has added several major features to accommodate functional-style programming, culminating in the LINQ extensions released with C# 3.0 and its supporting framework of lambda expressions, extension methods, and anonymous types.[23] These features enable C# programmers to use functional programming techniques, such as closures, when it is advantageous to their application. The LINQ extensions and the functional imports help developers reduce the amount of "boilerplate" code that is included in common tasks like querying a database, parsing an xml file, or searching through a data structure, shifting the emphasis onto the actual program logic to help improve readability and maintainability.[24]
Right now - thanks both to Microsoft's constant work improving .NET and C# and Oracle's lack of effort on Java - C# is years ahead of Java and is a very different language.
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Not a citation, but...
When I first read the C# spec in 1999, someone asked me, "isn't that just Microsoft Java?"
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I think everyone thought that at the time.. 
C Sharp (programming language) - Wikipedia
Quote: James Gosling, who created the Java programming language in 1994, and Bill Joy, a co-founder of Sun Microsystems, the originator of Java, called C# an "imitation" of Java; Gosling further said that "[C# is] sort of Java with reliability, productivity and security deleted."[17][18] Klaus Kreft and Angelika Langer (authors of a C++ streams book) stated in a blog post that "Java and C# are almost identical programming languages.
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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That's what I meant. When they did not want the licenses for J anymore and replaced it with C#, everyone claimed that C# was just a Java clone, totally ignoring that there were plenty of things that went further from the beginning (no primitive data types, a common CLR across .Net languages, properties for objects...)
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CodeWraith wrote: When they did not want the licenses for J anymore
Errr...after a long trial MS agreed not to do java anymore. If they didn't want it then they wouldn't have fought so long to keep it.
CodeWraith wrote: that went further from the beginning (no primitive data types, a common CLR across
Can't imagine that that wouldn't be required to avoid more legal trouble. For example look at java on the Android and the Oracle suit about that. The technology itself just encapsulates the business need, but the business need required that it be different.
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If they didn't want it then they wouldn't have fought so long to keep it.
Not a reasonable conclusion. On more than one occasion Microsoft has engaged in litigation to slow down the opposition, deplete their resources and demoralise them.
Microsoft did this to Sybase while Microsoft Access was being prepared, and was caught very much on the back foot when it unexpectedly won the rights to the source code for SQL Server.
PeterW
If you can spell and use correct grammar for your compiler, what makes you think I will tolerate less?
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It was. I think the book author is misinformed. Unfortunately people assume that just because something is printed its always correct.
Jeremy Falcon
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Slacker007 wrote: C# was modeled mostly after Java and C++
Says you. 
Here is another quote from a few pages later: Quote: Because C# is a hybrid of numerous languages, the result is a product that is as syntactically clean (if not cleaner) as Java, is about as simple as VB, and provides just about as much power and flexibility as C + +.
TROELSEN, ANDREW; Japikse, Philip. C# 6.0 and the .NET 4.6 Framework (Kindle Locations 3129-3131). Apress. Kindle Edition.
And
Quote: For example, like VB, C# supports the notion of class properties (as opposed to traditional getter and setter methods) and optional parameters.
TROELSEN, ANDREW; Japikse, Philip. C# 6.0 and the .NET 4.6 Framework (Kindle Locations 3124-3125). Apress. Kindle Edition.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Medical fact - quitting VB now will greatly increase your lifespan. No citations needed.
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Medical fact:
Case sensitive languages that also require semicolons at the end of every line and do not know the difference between a functions and a property unless you add () to the end of a parameter-less function drives you crazy within hours.
But seriously.
I do not understand the rant against *any* language.
Especially when it comes to VB.net and C#; they are almost the same languages.
See: C# and VB.NET Comparison Cheat Sheet: ASP Alliance[^]
I think people can build crappy software and good software in any language. 
modified 3-Aug-17 5:25am.
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I really don't like those feature-vs-feature, mechanism-vs-mechanism, xxyzzy-vs-xyzzy style of comparisons. Looking at each single feature / mechanism / xyzzy in isolation tends to hide their intended use, or established use. It reveals nothing about the "ecosystem" around the language. It allows a Fortran programmer to program Fortran in any language, arguing that (s)he is just using the mechanism provided by the language in a perfectly correct way.
Reducing the differences between two languages to mere syntax details can actually be very misleading.
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Guilty. I once dropped the guts of a Fortran program into C#. Worked pretty good. Easier than building an interface in Fortran.
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I once worked on a machine whose operating system was written in Fortran!
Rumours are that when Nic Wirth were developing the very first Pascal compiler, they started out writing a bootstrap in Fortran. Or, they tried, before realizing that it was easier do do it in assembly code.
Another sidetrack: I also worked a littel in a language whose compiler was written in itself, but without using a bootstrap. The compiler author (and language designer) wrote the compiler code "offline", and line-by-line mentally translated the code line into the machine instructions he knew that the compiler would have generated, typing the assebly instructions into the machine and assembled it. You could say that is having a bootstrap in assembly, but it wasn't a simple bootstrap - it was the complete compiler.
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Kind of amazing, really. Whatever works! Sounds like you've been rustling bytes for quite some time.
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For example macros in C/C++. You can find examples, even apparently people that claimed it was a good idea, that did things like define 'BEGIN'/'END' as '{'/'}' so that it looked like a different language.
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Having properties doesn't mean anything. Other languages have properties. Doesn't mean they're the basis for some other language
If it's not broken, fix it until it is.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind.
Ya can't fix stupid.
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Unfortunately, people assume that just because something is printed it's truth. I don't think the book author was properly informed or else we're just not hearing the whole story from the book. C# has more Java roots than VB roots.
Jeremy Falcon
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I don't think the book author is properly informed. Just because its printed material doesn't make it accurate.
C# has a lot of Java roots.[^]
Jeremy Falcon
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C# is a dialect for the VB7 runtime, known as .NET.
It's basicly just basic with some updated syntax, a new name and some marketing.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: VB7 runtime, known as .NET.
Sorry, I can't find anything to support this statement. Care to share a link or two. Thanks.
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No, I don't care 
There was this quote saying "we needed another curly braces language" at the introduction of C#, which coincided with the release of the renamed VB7. VB6 already introduced compiling to P-code, a runtime/framework that needed be installed.
Also take into account that C# code can be automatically translated (search & replace-kind of simple) to VB. C# is nothing more than a cleaned up VB6.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Well - maybe because: what was Java modeled after ?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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