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MCSE = Must Consult Someone Experienced
Jeremy Falcon
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Minesweeper Consultant / Solitaire Expert.
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Never bothered. But I did take some prep classes and those were informative.
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After over two decades of being in the industry of being hired and doing the hiring I learned this... if an employer gets too excited about certs than that employer doesn't know what they're doing. Certs are useful *only* to convey some competence to people that have no other way to gauge it by virtue of them not knowing what they're doing, they have money to pay for employees and that's all.
Last MS class I took was for SharePoint development a couple years ago. It was a joke. The books where nothing more than reference material I could find online and all the instructor did was read from the book. To top it off, they go over entry level concepts and pretend it's advanced stuff. It's more about money than anything else IMO. Nothing beats real world experience. Certs are like vitamin supplements, they're ok to buy, but don't stop eating food (experience).
Certificates expire. They're not hard to get, etc. I used to keep up with them and I don't now. What I find works better is a lot of work experience. If you have that, then certs are less important. If you have no experience, then they help. But even outside of that... a portfolio. Show the employer what you can do. A great portfolio goes much further than a cert that's really aimed at the lowest bars of the industry.
Jeremy Falcon
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Excellent. Thanks!
If it's not broken, fix it until it is.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind.
Ya can't fix stupid.
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You're welcome.
Jeremy Falcon
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Did you get a job or you just whining about certificates. 
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I could be worth $20 million dollars or a hobo and still think certs are stupid. Fact is, the most succeful people in the world dropped out of college and also tend to agree with that philosophy because by being spoonfed an education you limit yourself to that of the organization doing the spoon feeding.
But hey, that's just me. 
Jeremy Falcon
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If that's what you need to hear. On a different note, that's the first time I've seen that emoji on here. 
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: act is, the most succeful people in the world dropped out of college
Really hoping (and working) for that 
Jeremy Falcon wrote: you limit yourself to that of the organization
Couldn't agree more, but spoon feeding does have its benefits, like actually learning the basics before going full three course. It makes a difference. Although I have not finished it, I learned some valuable concepts from my engineering course, which I would unlikely learn on my own.
But back to the subject, MS Certifications to me are mostly worthless. It never served me for anything, except taking space on my resume.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Fabio Franco wrote: Couldn't agree more, but spoon feeding does have its benefits, like actually learning the basics before going full three course. It makes a difference. Although I have not finished it, I learned some valuable concepts from my engineering course, which I would unlikely learn on my own.
You're absolutely correct sir. Courses aren't a bad thing, but they are the beginning of your education, not the end. So that's a good way to put it.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: hey are the beginning of your education, not the end.
Agreed, although I did start learning to program before taking a course 
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Certs are like cars with built in obsolescence.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
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I think about it too, but I see little merit in them. Some organizations think getting a certification is like getting a PhD; meaning you are an expert in the discipline.
I am looking to reinvent my career, if you get my drift  , but ponder how to market myself in technologies that I do not have a lot of experience in. And certs are all just marketing; they are not real hands on experience.
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Certs are pointless. You can pass them with little/no effort AND with no special knowledge.
I have an MCSA, but ONLY because it was required for my job. This, despite the fact that even though I'm now a certified DB SA, I STILL don't have full SA permissions on our database. Security absurdity...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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I think they might be useful when the company you work for gets certified for membership for Microsoft's Partner program, and then they might require X number of people to get some certifications to get Gold Partner status. What the Gold status buys you over the "regular" Partner membership, I have no idea. I'm sure the details are out there.
My own assessment? It's not worth the paper it's printed on. And I'm saying that knowing they probably don't even send you a printed certificate anymore...
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It depends on where you are, if i talk about where i live, here it is not of that much worth, as it does not make you any different from other candidates when appearing in any interview, but yes i prepared for those and successfully completed my MCSD Web Application in 2016 but i didn't find any use of those.
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Kevin Marois wrote:
So, for those who have gotten MS Certs, do you think it was worth it?
I did it for myself, just to see if I could. Got nothing for it at work because no one knew. Same goes for my graduate degree.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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My job will pay for the class(es) and the test(s).
So...a week or so away from my desk for each one? Absolutely worth it. 
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Kevin Marois wrote: whether or not certs had any real value
As Jeremy pointed out, the certificate only matters to people who have no other way to know how competent the person sitting in front of them is.
Kevin Marois wrote: What benefits did you obtain from getting it?
The effort spent and the knowledge gained while prepping for the certification is totally worth it, as for having the certificate... not so much. Certifications are just another way of making money for them so I'd refrain from getting one.
In the end it depends on what your employer needs (wants) from you. If they want the certificate, have them pay for it.
You get nothing... good day sir!!
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Kevin Marois wrote: What benefits did you obtain from getting it?
Mostly nothing, me and a few colleagues took them to help the company gain the gold partner status with Microsoft.
Kevin Marois wrote: do you think it was worth it?
Well, the company I worked for did pay for it and I did take them during office hours, so yeah, it was worth it. It's nice to learn a thing or another.
Kevin Marois wrote: Would you do it again?
No, a lot of what's covered on the certifications I have never used in my life and what I used I actually went over other sources. It never helped me land a job or get a promotion. Not sure if where you live it makes sense.
Learning is always a good thing. If you think you will benefit from it, go ahead. I personally prefer using my time to learn through other means.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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They're good for that which they're designed.
1: A certification on a topic will give you a broad overview of the technology and introduce you to the entire toolkit. You may not be an expert at feature A but at least you'll know it exists.
2: A certification is good for gaining introductory knowledge or for establishing a skeleton upon which you'll hang more detailed knowledge. Anytime I complete book learning I think to myself, "Okay, now I'm ready to learn the material."
I've met people with 'years of experience' that were worthless on the job.
The tools of learning (experience, book learning, etc.) are only worthwhile for students who are paying attention.
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If someone has a cert, it means they're an expert on that subject and should be considered before anyone who doesn't have that cert. Anyone who doesn't have the cert is obviously lacking in expertise.
That statement should have made someone spit coffee on their monitor. The above is everyone's morning troll -- enjoy it in the spirit in which it was offered. 
I have "earned" several certifications -- from a marketing POV, they have value. Lot of job reqs state that various certs are required and/or preferred. On the employer side, certs make it easy to cull resumes -- no cert, resume goes in the bit bucket. That said, I can't agree that certs are used by lazy recruiters, as culling large numbers of resumes is time consuming, but I can't say I'm happy with it, either. But like it or not, it's life.
As others have noted, certs are a time and money pit. Each and every cert I know of requires continual education and some type of recert process. In the case of Microsoft certs, one retires as technology progresses, forcing people to do yet another. I was on the treadmill for years back in the VB days, get close to finishing one cert when Micro$oft would announce that the new version was available and the certs for the old version would be deprecated in XX months. 
But certs sell training and testing. It's big money and both types of organizations heartily support the requirement for certs. Of course they do! It's their revenue stream.
This is not restricted to IT. My wife is a physical therapist and her licensure requires ongoing training.
Is this all bad? No, it's not. I learned early in my career that I'd either move with the technology or I'd be sitting in a vanishing market, working in a technology that no longer has customers.
My advice? Get the certs that are required for the job. Anything else, take courses and/or do self-training. In recent years most tech books are available in eReader format, and I'll have a book open on my tablet while working. It's not quite as convenient as a hard copy book, but 50 ebooks don't weight a metric ton, either. 
A friend takes courses at the local community college -- in subjects for which he knows more than the "professor". Why take the course? It forces him to set aside time, something he might not do if he was simply reading a book and practicing on his own.
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How can it hurt? It's worth it. They've always had value for as long as they've been around. It doesn't mean you know anything or that the testing procedures and questions are not flawed or easy. However, for those who are not technical (Managers, HR, etc), sometimes it's the only thing they understand or can grasp onto.
I have three MCSEs and two MCDBAs (which come with a load of MCPs and MCSA, etc) and while I feel that some of my real world MS skillsets are second to none, I know for sure, that my certifications in several cases played a part in getting my foot in the door or tipping the scale in my favor. It's kind of a pshhh to those of us in the know. However, to the rest, it can seem like a real accomplishment and discipline. Most people don't know how much time, effort and brain power go into it. It's all about perception, just like anything else.
I used to shun certifications that expired too. However, I realize now, that even if it expires, it's still listed on my resume and given weight (I list my certs similar to how I list my education...i.e. by year...and I spell them out, I don't just put the acronym) and most people aren't thinking about them ever expiring. All the certs seem to expire these days anyway (as well as being granulated) as it's the new scam to milk more money out of people. I wouldn't waste my time on a renewal for an older technology (unless necessary), but I would on a nice new shiny certification which looks like one more thing that might sway the vote in my favor.
For those that never bothered for this reason or that reason, it's certainly not based on certifications having a negative impact. I think they are just not motivated enough, or have test anxiety, etc. It's hard to psyche yourself up enough to read a bunch of boring test material and then put a chunk of money on the line with a chance of gaining nothing (i.e. failing). But, it does pay off for maybe a weeks worth of studying and a couple hours of test taking. Chances are, you won't fail. However, if you do, schedule the same test for the next day while the info is still fresh in your head. It certainly can't hurt to have certs on your resume and I feel (in my situation and job market) the difference of a 30%+ increase in salary straight out the gate and getting jobs I wasn't 100% confident about. Later on in your career, as you have more experience, assuming you're where you want to be, they might not play as much of an integral part, as thorough experience speaks much louder than certifications.
modified 26-Jul-17 19:09pm.
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