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Mark_Wallace wrote: we definitely have to move further toward becoming police states, give up more of our rights, and be glad of sh1ttier and sh1ttier treatment from those "protecting" us.
The Police cannot be everywhere, but the general citizenry is. We have to pass laws allowing concealed carrying of weapons, provide training to those who want it, and get rid of many other silly infringements on our freedom.
If a terrorist knew that he would be shot before managing to do more than start his rampage, it might get him to think. He may be willing to die, but dying uselessly is another matter.
(Perhaps we should continue this in the Soapbox)
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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WHile in the US I talkewd about guns to a few people.
There is a town in TExas where men have to carry a gun. Naturally there is zero crime or violence in the town and its bars.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: Naturally there is zero crime or violence in the town and its bars
I hope this is meant to be ironical.
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No, serious. This is what was told me. When you have 30 armed citizens in the room you arent going to get one dick head acting up.
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But for when your own life does not matter, see posts below.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: If a terrorist knew that he would be shot before managing to do more than start his rampage, it might get him to think. He may be willing to die, but dying uselessly is another matter.
Western logic applied to not-so-western culture. In Israel, these random lunatic murderers have little to no chance of surviving an attack but the do it anyway. Your thoughts come from not being brought up with the concept of seeking martyrdom. By now, everyone's seen pictures of Palestinian/Iranian/etc. kids dressed up in suicide vests for various occasions. It's cultural and thus psychological.
Add to that the concept that it may not be a knife or gun, but as the terrorists figured out, a motor vehicle - and if they pick a lonelier area (instead of crowded city streets) you'd find the run-down gun-carriers decomposing on their weapons.
Rethink your strategy.
The one and only defense is to attack those that send them so they fear for their own lives (the leaders never seem to martyr themselves). Drones. Assassins. Even the odd Cruise Missile (this will make them unwelcome in their neighborhood).
For the terrorist 'leaders': bring the war home to them with a vengeance.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I can only upvote that once, alas. I could not have said it better myself. 
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I must say that it's interesting to note that it that hole that financed and built the Taliban and still finance so much terrorism. Well - paraphrasing George Orwell's "Animal Farm" - all terrorist states are equal - but some are more equal than others. So they're not trashed in the media and Iran is.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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I cannot believe I just up-voted that  .
I would say that the strategy needs to be layered. Overwhelming evidence shows that when one motivated individual has a firearm and is willing to use it to stop a bad guy, the situation does not escalate. True, it is not fool proof, but I would rather have some sort of offensive chance rather than "shelter in place". Your comments as to the culture of violence are dead on. Until the world deals with this, there are generations of whanna-be martyrs being grown.
Most people do not realize that up until just prior to 9/11, pilots were allowed to carry firearms into the cockpit. Think about where we would be today if the FAA had not proceeded in the direction of disarming.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Now - for the overwhelming evidence. In Israel, where they still have a "martyr" on easily a weekly basis, they also have streets full of armed people - for example - the soldiers on leave must keep there weapon with them in-transit so it's available if they're to be mobilized without the detour back to their base. Also, no shortage of armed trained persons everywhere. While it is true that the 'martyr' gets their wish, they still get to do their attack. The guns don't stop them from acting, only stopping them from continuing to act.
That, however, can be considered as confirmation of your hypothesis.
Now - on the other hand - I do believe that most people (constitution not withstanding) are far too stupid to be trusted with a lethal weapon on the streets with other people. Only a 1% level of these idiots could cause impressive damage. Like big cars - they'll need to show off their prowess, their Macho (&/or female equivalent thereof). The idea works good on paper, but I believe if the experiment were done there would be a constant din of firearms - not all of it used to celebrate weddings (third-world innuendo intended).
As for planes: at this point, I think allowing passengers to carry on their pocket knives would make sense. Pilots are behind a steel door. If there is trouble, now that we know it's likely to be motivated by suicide, having 200 knife wielding passengers would probably be able to reduce the carnage to just horrid levels. The risk to them is worth it if the alternative is being crashed into a building.
Or - we can make everyone stay home and watch Lassie all day.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: ... pass laws allowing concealed carrying of weapons ...
Why concealed? Why not open carry? Seems like the more obvious your countermeasures, the less likely the villain would take a chance.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Concealed carry adds to the potential terrorist's uncertainty. He can never be sure whether an apparently unarmed person is, in fact, unarmed, so he must treat even unarmed people as if they were armed.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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Mark_Wallace wrote: What with a guy a few weeks ago with a knife in London, and a lone shooter in Paris now, we definitely have to move further toward becoming police states, give up more of our rights, and be glad of sh1ttier and sh1ttier treatment from those "protecting" us.
Hey, but it's all worth it for the "diverse, vibrant communities" we all live in these days, huh? 
Now is it bad enough that you let somebody else kick your butts without you trying to do it to each other? Now if we're all talking about the same man, and I think we are... it appears he's got a rather growing collection of our bikes.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Vibrant as in highly unstable and explosion-prone.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
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Or one could give up on this multiculturalism stuff and go back to being monocultural.
People should be welcomed to Western countries with a welcome lunch of BLT (bacon, lettuce and tomato) sandwich. Those who refuse to eat ought to be put on the next boat out.
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BillWoodruff wrote: What happens in Paris happens to ... humanity.
Drink and sex traditionally. 
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You get that all over France, but Paris was, traditionally, known for it's promiscuity.
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Do crows, jays and magpies always look so smart because they were dressed by corvid owl?
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Gore Vidal, the writer? Did he also do couture?
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It would certainly work better if he did, yes.
(I blame messy implementation of reality for the problem - it worked perfectly well inside my brain)
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Interestingly they are Corbeau in French, also a manufacturer of racing seats. Anyway, what name did you intend it to be, I cant see it for the life of me.
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