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Caution: there are a few ms fanlemmings stalking the board.
Anyway, 10's not that bad, that is for people that don't really need to use a computer very much or do any real work on it. (Im nncluding the marketing dept in that one.)
Sin tack
the any key okay
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Spot on.
It's the same as every other "advance" they've made over the past few years, especially in ms office.
"Mobile first!"?
"Morons first!", more like.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I fully agree. In addition, todays IT industry tends to produce devices and softwer not for people who do real work. And that is the gigantic mistake in the case of Windows OS. Microsoft CEOs should take in consideration that what works for Apple and Samsung doesn't work for them.
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Bleh. It's really not that bad for developing MVC web apps, console apps, windows services on (I consider this real work). I've been running it as my main development machine for a while now... it's really not the worst. Windows 8 was the worst. Obviously I wish it was all 'lighter' feeling with less garbage though... 
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I was fighting the urge to comment, but I became overwhelmed with the gnawing feeling that my words just had to be heard (the inner narcissist was speaking to me).
As a developer across multiple platforms (desktop, services for servers, web, etc, etc), I'd state that Windows 10 has been pretty darn good for me. It is faster than the previous iterations, it tends not to get bogged down as much (but Visual Studio 2017 can sometimes be a pig), and if you ignore all those tile things in the start menu (who looks at those?), it is a very productive machine.
Now for something completely different...
Then the gamer in me - my beast of a machine that powers my gaming (sad that this isn't my development PC) is also top notch running Windows 10. Best framerates, no slow downs once again, and of course, compatibility with the wide genre of games is important. I'm a steamhead that occasionally dabbles in the Microsoft Store (to grab GoW), but not really a fan.
The addition of the Linux bash shell to Windows 10, the speed at which it operates, and the ability to "pretty much" have access to anything by just typing a few characters in the start menu is a dream come true.
For the sad panda side:
I upgraded to the Creator's Update. First issue was that on my gaming PC, my 4k monitor became washed out. Frustrating and angering at first, but I found that if you allow NVidia to control your HDR, and turn off the new Windows 10 setting for HDR, inner peace with your machine can be found.
Next, I typed a simple multiplication problem into the search bar (I use Cortana a lot for my go-to calculator), and it asked me if I wanted to search the web... That appears to be fixed this morning, but wasn't yesterday for some reason.
So is it perfect? Not really? Do the tiles do anything for me, other than serve as decorative nonsense on my start menu? Nope. But is it the best environment for my purposes so far? Yup...
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Not saying 10 doesn't work or is wrong, [and mentioned elsewhere inevitably will have to go 10], but as you point out there's still some built-in niggles plus work stopping glitches with almost every upgrade.
I prefer the system be more settled, so each day when I start I can go stright to what I want/need to do, not have a highish probability I to fix something first.
It's typical early adopter woes, something I prefer to avoid.
With windows, previous versions just as much, the 'early' phase is up to 2 years.
Sin tack
the any key okay
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Windows 10 with Classic Shell works quite well for me. I admit to preferring the Windows 7 UI, but it's not that big an issue with me.
OTOH, all I manage is my family's ( myself, my wife, and my daughters ) computers. I can't say what it would be like to manage a Win10 domain, or some such.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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Yeah, I use the Windows 10 with Classic Shell combo, too. I don't see what the big hate is about, as far as regular use goes.
I do understand the hate over the ads, and not having control over your own hardware as to when it updates and reboots, and what it updates. Otherwise, it's like enhanced Win 7 to me.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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I can see eventually no choice but to go 10 (11, 12),
Although classic shell does make things 'more familiar' there's more I'd like to see fixed. i.e. complete block on ms data theft, choice on updates, banish metro ...
fixed (adj): give full and proper control of a machine to it's owner.
If ms doesn't provide these then good quality 3rd party utils/hacks are fine. Yeah I know some are already out there, but currently somewhat rusty/leaky/breaky.
(Plus just did fresh 7 clean-install to fix weirdness caused by vs-15/17, enough pain for 1 year.)
Sin tack
the any key okay
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TNCaver wrote: and not having control over your own hardware as to when it updates and reboots, and what it updates. Otherwise
There is no OTHERWISE. In principal, what could be worse than that - i.e., buying a computer for MicroSloth?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Paying Apple to buy a computer for Apple?
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
- Benjamin Disraeli
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I like windows 10 but people have to release some things about it:
1. You can get the enterprise version for free from college and block updates for up to a few months by default. Go to settings->update->advanced settings and check the defer feature updates which usually blocks most updates. I've tested it and it works.
2. I like to use the open in internet explorer option in Edge to have websites open in windows 10 fine that opened fine in windows 7 (I have experienced this problem too of edge not properly loading websites but it does not stop me from using windows 10).
3. Programming wise, I have started figuring out UWP which is a pain but workarounds do exist. File operations are close to what your used to with StreamReader and StreamWriter in dotnet with some changes (the async operations are a pain but quite pleasant once you figure them out).
4. Class shell is available but with some basic hacks or organization, I like the start menu. I really have to give them a star for the search bar because once Cortana is disabled your start menu looks faster for items.
5. Disable Cortana and diagnostic data if you prefer to stay silent in what you send Microsoft (i.e. I did disable Cortana at first because during certain actions she sends data to Microsoft such as news preferences then I realized I told her to retrieve that).
Looks like windows 10 is great so far. I was skeptical after windows 8 and 8.1 and the crazy programming environment but its coming along great.
jeffery
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jeffery c wrote: block updates for up to a few months by default.
Since you cannot refuse MS's updating of YOUR computer - it's now there computer. It doesn't matter to me what the hell else it can do. I will never let them own my PC. The rest of your arguments are irrelevant aside from showing how sleazy and untrustworthy they are.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Not meaning to be rude but unless they changed the options you can have it up to 6 months. However, a WSUS server could make it up to a year. I used the update block option myself but so far have had no real problems with visual studio ( I upgraded to 2015 a while back to see what the fuss was about but the only computer with problems was a old computer I had 5 years or more already). So, it seems like the privacy paranoia has you crazy. If you do not like updating go to linux. It's almost the same as saying Linux is a secure OS which is false. Linux does something similar with updates (I think Ubuntu has a similar option but you need to set it up). Apple even does automatic updates and their company is not Microsoft and they force their opinions into the OS despite backlash while Microsoft listens. If you hate updating ask Microsoft to bring back the block update until you are ready option like in XP. That's why they have the windows insider program. So, if you really are an avid windows user and not a crazy privacy troll put your big boy pants on and tell Microsoft that you want it like it was in windows XP.
jeffery
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You ought to do a look-back into CP history - how many professionals are essentially locked out of their computer whilst it spends hours updating - and doing whatever the hell else MicroSlut wants to do.jeffery c wrote: privacy paranoia has you crazy
Ignoring it - deprecating the concept by calling it 'paranoia' - now that is crazy.
Ubutu upgrades only with the user's permission. As do the applications. Also, installing Ubuntu for duel-boot doesn't trash Windows. Try it the other way around some time . . .
Meanwhile - enjoy having your desktop turning into a bloated cell phone. Having your applications and setting manipulated for you and "for your own good".
By the way: VS2015 had some interesting "telemetry" being installed for a while - in every application it created - the user of the application having their system and privacy essentially raided - without telling anyone what they were doing. Enough developer protest and they stopped doing it by default. At least so far as anyone's yet found.
Meanwhile - since you're not paranoid - enjoy having doubleclick enhance your user experience.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Not my computer so I am not willing to change configuration.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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*slowly* getting used to it.. going through the list of "Windows 10 now incorporates <blank>"
For example, they have finally added virtual desktop support. Totally boned it up, but I guess it's sort of there. Much prefer deskspace, but we shall see. Meanwhile, here comes the next major update MS has released...
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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I like it.
That is all.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Meh, it's not that bad...
Just use Classic view, customize your menu to remove all of those stupid tiles, and it basically feels like Win7.
The forced reboots for updates are a little annoying, but you can postpone them if you have the Professional version instead of the entry-level one.
Can't really compare performance with Win7 (I skipped Win8 entirely), since I upgraded my entire computer at the same time (M2 SSD = Much awesomeness)
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Ian Shlasko wrote: Classic view
Where's the setting for this? Did a quick google and the links I see want me to install some third party app.
Jeremy Falcon
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Microsoft hates you even more, as Win10 proves 
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Luckily for me, my company has been gracious enough to grant me an MSDN license, from which I downloaded the Enterprise edition of winio. No Store, No Cortana, Updates when I tell it to update, I get to uninstall One Drive... It's almost halfway decent under these circumstances.
Of course, I only spend about 2-3 hours a week these days on my Win10 machine. The vast majority of my time is spent on a Linux box these days.
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I have tried, several times, to like Windows 10. I played with it from the first developer previews on up to when it went GA (and that stupid "free" forced-upgrade period). There was nothing major wrong with the thing (that I noticed) other than the fact that a device or two that I have were no longer supported. (A photo printer I have 2 of and work fine). I also didn't care much for the GUI changes and it just "felt" intrusive - always tossing an ad for something. "Try Microsoft Office 2015" ... that kind of thing. I use my machines for software development - not as an extension of my phone. I use my phones as an extension of my main development machine, not the other way around. I also don't care for the fact that I would have to trash perfectly good printers over a software upgrade!
I keep a copy of Windows 10 in a VM so that I can test desktop applications I write (WinForms) to make sure nothing has been broken by the new version of the O/S - as I do have a client or two that have moved to it. So far no problems on that front at least.
I spent nearly 2 years fiddling with the thing trying to like it and finally decided that I just don't care for it. (Yeah, I know, I'm thick-headed!) I have finally locked my entire network down on Windows 7. It's not likely that I'm going to ever switch. My equipment is well maintained and I'm unlikely to buy another computer any time soon. I buy slightly older models of equipment anyway. (The last NEW machine I bought was this XPS 8300 and it's cattle-bred with an i7/2600 and upgraded with 1TB SSD and 16GB of main - pretty high performance). Windows 7 ain't going anywhere for a long time, IMHO. When it reaches end-of-support I'll just keep my firewall on the router tuned up and not worry about it. I haven't ever gotten hacked as it is in the last 10-15 years through all the versions of Windows I've used in this house so I'm not particularly worried about it.
I got better things to do (like build toys for my grandson!) than ride the "upgrade train" any longer. You can HAVE Windows 10!
If you think that hiring a professional is expensive wait until you try hiring an amateur! - Red Adair
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I concur.
I will probably have to use Windows 10 at the office within the next year or so as we have to support users that will get it, but then it will be the Enterprise version which is inherently better anyway.
At home I am still using Windows 7 for most of my machines with XP to run an old scanner and printer, Vista as a sandbox and test machine (it just keeps working and has NEVER given any trouble) and Server 2008 on my home file and backup servers.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Yeah, sometimes constraints at work require that we use stuff we wouldn't use ourselves. The company I work for provided laptops for the developers and gave us the choice of Windows 7 or 10 and I went with 7, of course. If they, at any point, require upgrading to 10 then it will be on their machine, not my equipment. As I said earlier, it's a matter of constantly wasting time and money replacing technology that does the job. I'm in the same mode with my development tools. I still use VS2008/SQL Server/Active Reports 6 to produce my product. I spent about $1000 on those things and nothing about the new Visual Studio (or the other products) enhances what I can produce. I'm very much in a "if it ain't broke, why fix it?" mode with all this stuff.
I have a 20-year-old table saw out in the wood shop that still cuts wood as well as it did when it was new. Until it physically wears out or they upgrade wood to a new material that it can't cut I reckon I'll stick with it, too! 
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