|
My fiancèe is an engineer like me, and she has always been bright - despite not owning a computer until her late teens (dirt-poor family) and attending to a professional high school for social service operators (no computer involved) she was perfectly capable of editing both BBCode and html on her blog (using public libraries internet access) in her early teens.
Nevertheless, she finds programming extremely boring even if for all purposes she'd probably hand me my sitting-body-part if she'd ever decide to put into it. and that's the same for most women I know, they find science and technology in particular boring and flat - they fail to see tha magic.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
|
|
|
|
|
Totally agree with you on this. Policy is important to clarify what an organization wants to do and how to do it, guide decisions and achieve rational/unbias outcomes. Some companies do thing without following policy, maybe there isn't one.
Bryian Tan
|
|
|
|
|
Umm, the way to fix it would be acquire the crap "certification" they're selling?
It really is just a badly written advert for some dodgy certification that wouldn't be worth the paper it gets printed on.
And the whole advert is covered up conveniently behind the pretense of "bringing better prospects for women". Could it get any more disgusting? 
|
|
|
|
|
What if 28% of men said that they experience "gender bias" on the job? Would you believe the industry is biased against men? I know I wouldn't care either way.
Also, this "discussion" is more suited for The Soapbox.
|
|
|
|
|
The only gender bias I have experienced is the fact that most women choose to study/work in a different area.
The very few women I've met in this business has been very well paid, not because they're women, but because they were very competent.
|
|
|
|
|
What a complete waste of words.
I love the way people talk about surveys without mentioning the sample size -- which makes the survey results absolutely useless, because it may only have been 23 women.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
|
|
|
|
|
It could be 12, we don't know the sample size 
Bryian Tan
|
|
|
|
|
Of course it can be fixed, but just for good measure, I think that we should get a man to fix it, so that we know it's fixed properly once and for all... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
-
The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-
I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
|
|
|
|
|
Ok, in the next International Women's Day summit we will mentioned your name.
Bryian Tan
|
|
|
|
|
In my company there is the unspoken rule, fixed by the female CEO (wife of Mr President himself), that women will no longer be hired permanently - only stages or timed apprenticeship. That because of the potential of maternity.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
|
|
|
|
|
I took 'paternity leave' while working at my former company.
|
|
|
|
|
You did f*ing right, except that it lasts way less than the full extension of maternity leave and it grants fewer perks later.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I took half the parent leave for my kids, but I had to fight for it.
Not with my company, but with my wife. It's really hard, for many women it seems, to give over responsibility at halftime. 
I've talked with quite a few guys having a similar experience.
<edit>was supposed to be a reply to Carlos post above<7edit>
|
|
|
|
|
Yes but without the money flowing from the US, the Dolce Vita and the Rock 'n roll.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
|
|
|
|
|
den2k88 wrote: That because of the potential of maternity.
I always had the same rule for the same reasons. Avoiding marriage like the plague has always worked well for me, but what exactly is a timed apprenticeship? Those are the ones that want money, right?
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
|
|
|
|
|
It is a contract that expires afer 3 years, dirung which you start from a low pay and slowly rise (the amounts are written in the contract) and then you may be or may be not hired - and you have less contributions to the statal pension plan, nor access to any form of credit since you're not hired permanently.
For women avoiding marriage is not sufficient - either they ar 50+ years old (but then they dont't hire them anyway) or maternity is still a possible issue. Maternity rights are pretty harsh on the employers - basically a woman can take up to an year and a half of paid leave and expect to return working in the same position she left, that leaves great problems because you have to find a substitute, train him/her (so you're way low on productivity) only to either relocate him/her or cease his/her contract when the old employeee returns. And then there is a long period of extended paid leaves to care for the child.
Still, it's not fair - given that single fathers have way less rights while nonetheless having to foster a child.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
|
|
|
|
|
Life will never be fair, in both directions. I have heard that 98% of all fatal job accidents here are men. I always wanted to know if the ladies would want a fair share of those accidents as well.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
|
|
|
|
|
Aye, in my country they're introducing "pink quotas", a lgally required minimum pecentage of female workers. But not for the heavy jobs, only directive/office ones. Why don't they do that for electricians, masons, builders, truck drivers, heavy labour... also, try applying as a man as clerk for fashion/clothing shops. Or asking for part-time as a man. You get laughed in your face and sent back home.
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
|
|
|
|
|
den2k88 wrote: also, try applying as a man as clerk for fashion/clothing shops
If I did that, I would deseve getting laughed in the face. I have no sense for that stuff at all. Clothing must be comfortable, warm or light enough (depending on the climate) and must have many pockets.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
|
|
|
|
|
CDP1802 wrote: If I did that, I would deseve getting laughed in the face. I have no sense for that stuff at all. Clothing must be comfortable, warm or light enough (depending on the climate) and must have many pockets.
Same here for me 
* CALL APOGEE, SAY AARDWOLF
* GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
* Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game.
* I'm a puny punmaker.
|
|
|
|
|
I've come across gender-bias (in both directions) during my career. Even suffered for it a couple of times, but had the sense to speak out and expose the unmitigated differences in salaries.
Things in the UK have moved on and I'm guessing similar things are starting to happen in the US (as I've worked for a US company that made a Big Deal of things like this).
However I believe these "certificates" and "measurements" are worse than useless - "There are lies, damned lies and statistics" after all. How does one deal with a requirement to have (say) 25% of all tech employees to be female? Start employing women who aren't up the standard required just to keep the numbers up? (Same argument applies to any "minority" group). Dilute the company's ability for the sake of useless statistics?
Applying a "solution" at that end of the career ladder is way too late. Girls in schools should be encouraged into the sciences from day 1. Or, to be more accurate, all children should be encouraged to explore all the opportunities available, irrespective of gender. But many societies vilify and stifle people who don't want to follow accepted social norms so there is no incentive to step out of the little boxes folk are forced into. There are always a few that do manage to "break free", thank goodness.
There was another comment on the thread about a company not employing women in permanent roles due to the "likelihood of maternity" - I'm old enough to have come across that attitude during interviews. In the UK paid paternity leave is now compulsory which helps to redress that balance a bit, although we're a bit behind some of our Scandinavian and European cousins (and far ahead of the US). But the unconscious bias against younger women (i.e. of childbearing age) still exists.
Rant over. Apologies. These opinions should have been restricted to the Soapbox.
|
|
|
|
|
CHill60 Girls in schools should be encouraged into the sciences from day 1
That was well said!
CHill60 Rant over. Apologies. These opinions should have been restricted to the Soapbox.
Couple of other CP members said the same, I'll keep that in mind next time.
Bryian Tan
|
|
|
|
|
Your post was fine ... I wandered into the land of politics 
|
|
|
|
|
New contract has me in Tampa FL; I guess it has been a blessing that in the 35+ years I have been doing this, I have never encountered what people would call 'traffic jams'  . That being said, I think most people here need to be told, in words of one syllable and appropiate physucal suasion, what that lever is on the left side of the steering wheel is for. Nobody here uses it - for ANYTHING  . They also firmly believe that that white fog line on the right of the road MUST be followed - no matter where it goes, or if that lane merges, as they do, with large signs informing people of that fact.
An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications. - Lazarus Long
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
