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HR will see it, but it's illegal for them to act on it, and they know it. The hiring team will eventually figure it out, but maybe not before you've shown them what you know. Dinging you simply because you're too old is a weak (as in illegal) position for them to be in, so they will try to do things honestly and find a better candidate. That's certainly a better position for you to be in than having them decide not to hire you the moment they see you.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Richard Branson has said words to the effect that the customers are not the most important part of a business - the employees are. Look after the employees, and they will look after the customers. If your bosses do not agree with this type of policy, then they are doomed to failure, and your best option would be to abandon ship before it sinks.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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That description fits this place in former times (and that was only a very short time ago).
Another aspect: even if I'm gone - there's a lot of nice people working here and if there's a collapse they're in trouble. For many, this is their sole source of income (not unusual).
There's always a chance they may come to their senses before they do irreparable damage. I have my survival gear but I do worry about those left behind.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Keep in mind that it's easier to get a job while you have one.
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What's the new management's response likely to be if they have no IT team left? Hire from scratch or get in a "consultancy" to manage things in the interim? If your systems are critical then the first option will take too long. If they take the second route and choose a large-ish consultancy, you have the possibility of being kicked out, then approaching replacement consultancy with your intimate knowledge of the system. You get re-hired by the consultancy at twice the rate and carry on doing what you always did, the system and company don't implode, and management learn a valuable lesson. To "add value" you can spend between now and d-day removing any comments from the code and deleting all documentation. 
Have done similar (with a variation) in the past. Part of team laid off to off-shore system support; new consultancy totally incompetent and incapable; re-hired as freelancer by end-user company (under a different manager) to "rescue" support of the system. I then charged them a monthly retainer on top of the hours I worked. 
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There's something about your overall comment that I like.
I'd been a contractor for them for years - now I'm a 'real' employee - but I did already decide that should they let us go and find out 'oooop!' then it will cost them to get me back.
Alas, though, I'm strapped with ethics: I won't obfuscate the code. Since I'm the only one that comments code, maybe they won't even look for them.
As far as working as a contractor - I've already got all the fixin's
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Leave. Don't worry about your coworkers -- those who want to put up with that kind of pressure will stay, the rest are already planning their exit strategy.
If you stay, and the team misses the deadline, then they will fire you and you'll then have a black mark on your employment record. Don't wait around for them to do that to your career.
If the new management has a brain at all between the lot of them, once a few people leave, they'll figure out that they are hemorrhaging their best and brightest, and will tone down their stance to preserve the rest. If they don't, then by staying you'll end up working with the losers who can't, or are not smart enough, to get new jobs elsewhere. Is that really a team you want to be working with in the future? Especially give the poor management you'll be doing it under?
Yup, time to leave.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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A critical component in this that the company's primary business is not software - they just use it.
I'm practical enough to know that I've no chance to be hire directly (not for development, at least). At my age, some look to work at Walmart.
In the sense, then, of hemorrhaging the best and brightest, although that might be true in terms of pure intellectual merit, it wouldn't have any effect on day-to-day operations until the systems begin to (inevitably) collapse. They've hired lousy outside contractors before - so they've experience at wasting money on people's who's primary interest is in keeping the money flowing.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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If that's their management style, then I would invest no effort at all in meeting their deadlines, because things will only get worse, and you will never be thanked by people like that for breaking your back.
Good managers are worth making an effort for; bad managers are not.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'll do the work, as always - their deadline (if they every even got one) has no effect on me. I do what I do at the rate I do it. If it goes live it's because I'm as sure as I can be that it works.
My boss brought the whole IT department together, as a family, and build loyalty. And, on top of that, he's a really productive coder (he, too, loves doing it).
There's always a possibility that some of the corporate old guard will pull them aside and point out to them that their running towards a cliff.
Things only getting worse is somewhat where I started out: if the threat seems to work they'll try to do it again. Might as well save myself the trouble of worrying about it. If, for some reason, this deadline is met and they try to do it again - I'll explain to them that it doesn't work that way unless they plant to do the coding themselves. Possibly in a less KSS manner.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Might as well save myself the trouble of worrying about it.
As we say in the UK: "Don't let the b@st@rds grind you down".
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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As others have said, you provide services to your employee and in return, receive a wage.
As long as you are receiving the wage, you should provide them with the best value you can.
As their demands seem to be outstripping your ability to provide value in the time period they have defined, then, what are your options?
- Leave the company and start retirement.
- Leave the company and find employment elsewhere
- Wait to see if what happens when their demands are not met.
So, assuming you want to work elsewhere, do you want to leave or your own terms or let them release you?
At my previous position, there were 18 people in the department when I started. I survived two rounds of reductions, and, when I left, the department was down to 5 people.
I chose to leave because the work load was increasing, but the compensation wasn't. The work/home life balance was getting skewed far to much to the work side.
I took a job in an area I enjoyed and have never looked back.
What you do will depend on how you answer the above questions.
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Wise reflections.
By considering the work environment -
Since it's already short-hand in development, if they do any cuts the workload will likely become oppressive. A person who use to work where my wife worked had an excellent response to management: Two Hand - Eight Hours - Which do you want done? This was clerical, but addressing your first paragraph, just because management makes a demand doesn't mean it can happen.
My recent lapse in response was replacing a solution I had yesterday with a much better one that's more dynamic, flexible, and will (best of all) be easier to work with. Which is being built for the use by another (the other) developer throughout a major application which is essential to the companies operations. At the very least, neither of us would make junk for the other. Lucky management!
The current plan, however, is to go gracefully into what will become quite a comfortable (albeit not luxurious) lifestyle. If I fret over anything, it's to make sure I keep my mind exercised thoroughly and consistently.
There's quite a lot to do - will it be enough? As long as work was fun, well, it was fun.
When it's not fun anymore - well, life is precious and amazingly short.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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3) the majority of you leave. I've seen that happen even without such a big change.
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Quit. The environment has gone toxic.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Resumes would be the answer if I were, say, 20 years younger. Since a replacement position is going to be difficult (or impossible), aside from self employment (back to the future) then I need to wait to be let go (and thus eligible for unemployment insurance).
And, of course, it's always possible that the old guard, who still hold the real power in the company, will call the new management in and read them the Riot Act.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Sadly, it sounds like you're in a similar situation to mine. I'm 55, and finding a new position would be difficult. Secondly, if I'm laid off, I'd receive a nice severance package under the current policy. My only hope is for a sale of the business to complete (promised Any Day Now for the last couple of months  ).
Software Zen: delete this;
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W∴ Balboos wrote: I need to wait to be let go (and thus eligible for unemployment insurance)
I thought it was the case that if you're fired from your job, you can't collect unemployment. Firing you for poor performance is what your employer is threatening to do to you.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Although I am a driver personality, I have to agree with you. Nobody should be driven like that.
Personally, I would have a closed door meeting, and explain where you are at, and what your thought process is, like you did here.
They will argue that they wont do this again, it is just this ONE last time, to save the queen.
They always do. And many believe it.
Meanwhile, keep your resume up to date, tighten the belt a little, and be prepared to be let go, or to walk.
It certainly is no longer a career, but a job, at this point.
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Remember - I'm not in this alone!
The whole department, or at least the developers, have been given the bullying attempt.
Certainly, at least two of us (perhaps with the tightest grip on the short hairs) could turn around and fart in their general direction as we leave.
But - a calm and reasonable meeting - with discussion rather than demands - is the way a grown up would have handled it. Remember, though, we're talking about management. The merit system for that job is based on . . . well that is a good question, isn't it?
Belt tightening? Fortunately, Mrs. Wife and myself are minimalists. We can just relax. Doing something I like to do and getting paid for it keeps me working. But - I've been considering the resume thing: if I want to do some teaching I'll need to recast it.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Which is why I suggest a sit down with management as the first option.
The problem is that management is clueless about IT and what it takes.
But regardless. The deadline will come to pass. With or without software ready.
The earlier the conversation, the better for everyone.
But there are risks.
I would bring 1-2 people in the meeting with you, not the entire team. But make sure
you can speak for the team.
Good Luck!
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Ultimately, not my place - there's a IT department director. A bunch of others. My part in this opus-magnum is, in a certain way, support: I make tools/interfaces to facilitate the implementation and make sure everything work as close to "no matter what" as possible. One or two others will be working with data, using my stuff to insert/edit/delete/display/etc. Architecture for all of this is something we (developers) come to agree on, together.
The real problem, I think, is that they need to be made to understand how much was done in the last few years and how much the company depends upon it.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Did they recently make a trip to India?
Might be the outsourcing promise hanging over your collective heads.
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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They have been burned by that route, before.
There's some semi-internal Indian contractors, now - and not anyone I know is happy with their work.
They've even out-sourced 'Locally' and have gotten screwed.
However, for some people, the concept of a steep learning curve amounts to jumping off a cliff.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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So these New Kids have deadlines. That's ok. Those are their deadlines. You can explain that that's just not how development/programming works; that you will, as always, do the best you can, but in the end, it will take as long as it takes.
Leave the decision of continued employment in their court.
On the other hand there is a great amount of satisfaction to be had by quitting an unsatisfying job. Such a relief.
I had a reasonable amount of savings, too, and decided to resign from an 18-year job because of some 'differences of opinion.' My budget is fine, but tighter than anticipated because of the rise of health insurance premiums.
Cheers,
Mark
Just another cog in the wheel
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