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Resignation would mean I don't get to collect unemployment compensation - not a fortune - something over $400/wk. Buys a lot of pizza and single-malt.
If either of us two multi-project developer's is gone, the others' work would be impacted. His leaving would overload me with work; my leaving would end development of the infrastructure. If things do collapse and they need us back . . . it will be costly.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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It's never easy. When someone comes with 'or else', this may be your only option in the long run. Otherwise it will be 'or else' every day from then on, just as you wrote. For similar reasons they can't take back their 'or else' anymore.
Try to find the best way out for you, but don't wait too long. If they must do their 'or else' or if too many leave before that, things will get nasty for those that remain. That can quickly turn into a self fulfilling prophecy.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Go back to work and meet that freaking deadline: just a thread below Cornelius is waiting for you to publish!
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There seem to be a lot of developers that feel everyone is their enemy. Also, several responses have already said to quit. I don't understand either of these mentalities. My philosophy is that I will do my best every day. If that is not good enough, then there are lots of other jobs. But I won't quit or runaway just because someone is putting undue pressure on me. I will communicate with them.
Start by trying to communicate with them, or with your manager.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Here, we agree. We will do the best job we can while we are doing it.
Communicate? My 'communication' was my being caught in one of those ambush-captures in a hallway. There was no listening - only demanding.
Loyalty to what once was means we will continue to do our best. Also, loyalty to ourselves.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: My 'communication' was my being caught in one of those ambush-captures in a hallway.
What you do here is knee them in the groin and while they are wincing and moaning you have their attention. 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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There is nothing wrong with a hard deadline, the problem is the threat...
Let see from their point of view what will happened if the deadline missed by current team...
If they go and put you out, they not only have no product, but there is no promise at all that there will be in the near future...
So you maybe loose your job, but they will be in a much worst situation... And nobody to blame in front of the management - after all you are not there anymore...
If they do not put you out, in that case the tones will be higher than ever - to gain back reputation, and it will be very uncomfortable to work there...
So - instead to work on that project, spend your time on searching new job...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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You have some good insights. If they get rid of us, much of the existing infrastructure will continue to run but not grow, and eventually, everything collapses. Essentially, if they bring in a bunch of "smart young programmers" they'll start from scratch. Ironically, they'll probably hire more than we currently have (obvious implications here for a rational solution that will not be sought by management)
Management? They'll continue to blame us while they can. Until the new team has its problems. Amazingly, the company has experience with many outside vendors. The results have almost invariably sucked.
Alas, aside from contract work or other self employment, I'm way too grey for the IT industries' taste (at least in US).
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Another possibility is they will further 'trim' the department (looks good on the books - reduced 'running costs' - accountants love that), then when the department becomes too small to provide/sustain their next move to 'outsource' it (appears elsewhere in the ledgers, but as 'expenses' are claimable off income - even though more expensive it makes for a 'better' ledger.)
As one of the inner core: play your cards right and you could end up doing the same work you do today on contract (also means you can claim your own expenses off your income). I'd suggest have your own terms organised and ready: i.e. where/when you work, what you provide, what they provide, billing/payment terms... Don't forget to charge more: you've now got to cover your own medical, time off/vacation cover (4 weeks vacation = 8% of your income, medical - check cost of insurance plans plus some for typical sick days/doctor visits).
In fact be ready to 'suggest' that idea to them should they utter the smallest hints of it; if that's their thinking being on the same page from day zero will keep you in their good books. If yu can get it, it's a good way to move to working for yourself without missing a paycheck.
Sin tack
the any key okay
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W∴ Balboos wrote: I'm way too grey for the IT industries' taste
Dye your hair and trim your resume. No, I'm not kidding.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Well - trim my resume - get rid of wasteful things like education . . .
OK - dye my hair - but what about that pesky birthday that HR will see?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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HR will see it, but it's illegal for them to act on it, and they know it. The hiring team will eventually figure it out, but maybe not before you've shown them what you know. Dinging you simply because you're too old is a weak (as in illegal) position for them to be in, so they will try to do things honestly and find a better candidate. That's certainly a better position for you to be in than having them decide not to hire you the moment they see you.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Richard Branson has said words to the effect that the customers are not the most important part of a business - the employees are. Look after the employees, and they will look after the customers. If your bosses do not agree with this type of policy, then they are doomed to failure, and your best option would be to abandon ship before it sinks.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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That description fits this place in former times (and that was only a very short time ago).
Another aspect: even if I'm gone - there's a lot of nice people working here and if there's a collapse they're in trouble. For many, this is their sole source of income (not unusual).
There's always a chance they may come to their senses before they do irreparable damage. I have my survival gear but I do worry about those left behind.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Keep in mind that it's easier to get a job while you have one.
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What's the new management's response likely to be if they have no IT team left? Hire from scratch or get in a "consultancy" to manage things in the interim? If your systems are critical then the first option will take too long. If they take the second route and choose a large-ish consultancy, you have the possibility of being kicked out, then approaching replacement consultancy with your intimate knowledge of the system. You get re-hired by the consultancy at twice the rate and carry on doing what you always did, the system and company don't implode, and management learn a valuable lesson. To "add value" you can spend between now and d-day removing any comments from the code and deleting all documentation. 
Have done similar (with a variation) in the past. Part of team laid off to off-shore system support; new consultancy totally incompetent and incapable; re-hired as freelancer by end-user company (under a different manager) to "rescue" support of the system. I then charged them a monthly retainer on top of the hours I worked. 
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There's something about your overall comment that I like.
I'd been a contractor for them for years - now I'm a 'real' employee - but I did already decide that should they let us go and find out 'oooop!' then it will cost them to get me back.
Alas, though, I'm strapped with ethics: I won't obfuscate the code. Since I'm the only one that comments code, maybe they won't even look for them.
As far as working as a contractor - I've already got all the fixin's
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Leave. Don't worry about your coworkers -- those who want to put up with that kind of pressure will stay, the rest are already planning their exit strategy.
If you stay, and the team misses the deadline, then they will fire you and you'll then have a black mark on your employment record. Don't wait around for them to do that to your career.
If the new management has a brain at all between the lot of them, once a few people leave, they'll figure out that they are hemorrhaging their best and brightest, and will tone down their stance to preserve the rest. If they don't, then by staying you'll end up working with the losers who can't, or are not smart enough, to get new jobs elsewhere. Is that really a team you want to be working with in the future? Especially give the poor management you'll be doing it under?
Yup, time to leave.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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A critical component in this that the company's primary business is not software - they just use it.
I'm practical enough to know that I've no chance to be hire directly (not for development, at least). At my age, some look to work at Walmart.
In the sense, then, of hemorrhaging the best and brightest, although that might be true in terms of pure intellectual merit, it wouldn't have any effect on day-to-day operations until the systems begin to (inevitably) collapse. They've hired lousy outside contractors before - so they've experience at wasting money on people's who's primary interest is in keeping the money flowing.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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If that's their management style, then I would invest no effort at all in meeting their deadlines, because things will only get worse, and you will never be thanked by people like that for breaking your back.
Good managers are worth making an effort for; bad managers are not.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I'll do the work, as always - their deadline (if they every even got one) has no effect on me. I do what I do at the rate I do it. If it goes live it's because I'm as sure as I can be that it works.
My boss brought the whole IT department together, as a family, and build loyalty. And, on top of that, he's a really productive coder (he, too, loves doing it).
There's always a possibility that some of the corporate old guard will pull them aside and point out to them that their running towards a cliff.
Things only getting worse is somewhat where I started out: if the threat seems to work they'll try to do it again. Might as well save myself the trouble of worrying about it. If, for some reason, this deadline is met and they try to do it again - I'll explain to them that it doesn't work that way unless they plant to do the coding themselves. Possibly in a less KSS manner.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Might as well save myself the trouble of worrying about it.
As we say in the UK: "Don't let the b@st@rds grind you down".
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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As others have said, you provide services to your employee and in return, receive a wage.
As long as you are receiving the wage, you should provide them with the best value you can.
As their demands seem to be outstripping your ability to provide value in the time period they have defined, then, what are your options?
- Leave the company and start retirement.
- Leave the company and find employment elsewhere
- Wait to see if what happens when their demands are not met.
So, assuming you want to work elsewhere, do you want to leave or your own terms or let them release you?
At my previous position, there were 18 people in the department when I started. I survived two rounds of reductions, and, when I left, the department was down to 5 people.
I chose to leave because the work load was increasing, but the compensation wasn't. The work/home life balance was getting skewed far to much to the work side.
I took a job in an area I enjoyed and have never looked back.
What you do will depend on how you answer the above questions.
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Wise reflections.
By considering the work environment -
Since it's already short-hand in development, if they do any cuts the workload will likely become oppressive. A person who use to work where my wife worked had an excellent response to management: Two Hand - Eight Hours - Which do you want done? This was clerical, but addressing your first paragraph, just because management makes a demand doesn't mean it can happen.
My recent lapse in response was replacing a solution I had yesterday with a much better one that's more dynamic, flexible, and will (best of all) be easier to work with. Which is being built for the use by another (the other) developer throughout a major application which is essential to the companies operations. At the very least, neither of us would make junk for the other. Lucky management!
The current plan, however, is to go gracefully into what will become quite a comfortable (albeit not luxurious) lifestyle. If I fret over anything, it's to make sure I keep my mind exercised thoroughly and consistently.
There's quite a lot to do - will it be enough? As long as work was fun, well, it was fun.
When it's not fun anymore - well, life is precious and amazingly short.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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3) the majority of you leave. I've seen that happen even without such a big change.
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