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Munchies_Matt wrote: it is your DUTY to the company to produce a quality product as fast as possible.
Yes, but within reason.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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He is paid to do a job, do it.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: He is paid to do a job, do it.
I agree. But if that job turns into "you must work 80 hour weeks" then I have no problem finding a more reasonable job. No good developer, at least in the US, should ever feel like they can't get another job.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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'If'
The fact is a lot of software can be produced faster, I have seen gross inefficiences in my career.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: I have seen gross inefficiences in my career.
True in any industry and very true in government.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Another post of yours that deserves a rude comment.
Munchies_Matt wrote: If you can do that you deserve to be sacked.
Me and this other developer operate as a gestalt - we rebuilt half the companies software infrastructure in just a few years - almost every item extensible without limitations and fiercely reliable.
But - we can only hope you find yourself in a position where you're asked to do a job that requires half a dozen developers and you do it with one colleague (or in your case, you'd like work alone as who'd want to be stuck there).
A quality product - as fast as possible - WELL - which one is it to be?
If you want speed, hire an adequate headcount of qualified staff.
Your comment so much reminds me of Marie Antoinette's solution of what the poor should eat if they have no bread. I understand the people's response.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: Another post of yours that deserves a rude comment.
Why? I think you may be taking it too personal. His point is, if I may, that if you don't do your best work you should be fired. That's it. Wouldn't you agree that if you don't do your best work you could/should be fired?
W∴ Balboos wrote: A quality product - as fast as possible - WELL - which one is it to be?
They are not mutually exclusive. As fast as possible could mean 2 weeks or could mean 6 years. Again, all's he's saying, I believe, is to do a good job everyday. Period.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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In a nutshell, we're very understaffed in terms of developers. Of those here, several have a fixed project which they develop/maintain 100% of their time.
It really leaves two of us to rebuild - which requires very major integration with, and finally replacement of, legacy applications. Many very old. The amount of work produced in the last few years is several time that produced in the previous ten (as far back as my history goes).
The 'new kids' have not only no technical background, but not even rally a good business background. Sometime (like this time), someone gets rapidly put into high management due to - let us just say - connections. Qualifications? Not so much.
So - we do make very robust application - in massive amounts - but we're only partially superhuman.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: but we're only partially superhuman.
Exactly.
At my last job we had a Project Manager who only knew how to say "It must be done by this date." I would tell her there was no way that was happening. She would repeat, "It has to." I would say it won't. She didn't seem to understand that resources have limits. If you want it done sooner, increase resources and that might do it.
The challenge is getting others to understand what an appropriate time frame is. But don't quit over just this, many places will have the same problem.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Hey, you are the one who said you could meet a shortened deadline, not me.
I have worked with many inefficient software teams, and its quite staggering how much time they waste instead of just getting the product out.
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And its not rude, its a fact of life. Compete or die. Yes, its tough, but thats the way the world works.
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You appear to prefer the route of an evolutionary cul-de-sac.
Humans, individually, compete very poorly - meal for a lion without getting hair stuck in his teeth.
When we stop competing and work cooperatively, then we're a rather formidable species. Snuggling up on a lion-skin rug.
So - you hole up in your cul-de-sac. The rest of us will continue to evolve.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You arent French are you?
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You're getting paid to work for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week (assuming a 40 hour contract), in reasonable circumstances.
Just because you're getting money doesn't mean you should take everything they throw at you.
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Any chance of quitting before the deadline? I did something similar last year to get out of a place where staying was not a good idea anymore. We secretly all looked for new jobs, helped each other as good as possible and all got out, except one.
Alone the faces of the bosses you get to see when most of the team quit within a few days are definitely priceless. If it's so easy, then do it yourself, d*ckheads.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Resignation would mean I don't get to collect unemployment compensation - not a fortune - something over $400/wk. Buys a lot of pizza and single-malt.
If either of us two multi-project developer's is gone, the others' work would be impacted. His leaving would overload me with work; my leaving would end development of the infrastructure. If things do collapse and they need us back . . . it will be costly.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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It's never easy. When someone comes with 'or else', this may be your only option in the long run. Otherwise it will be 'or else' every day from then on, just as you wrote. For similar reasons they can't take back their 'or else' anymore.
Try to find the best way out for you, but don't wait too long. If they must do their 'or else' or if too many leave before that, things will get nasty for those that remain. That can quickly turn into a self fulfilling prophecy.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Go back to work and meet that freaking deadline: just a thread below Cornelius is waiting for you to publish!
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There seem to be a lot of developers that feel everyone is their enemy. Also, several responses have already said to quit. I don't understand either of these mentalities. My philosophy is that I will do my best every day. If that is not good enough, then there are lots of other jobs. But I won't quit or runaway just because someone is putting undue pressure on me. I will communicate with them.
Start by trying to communicate with them, or with your manager.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Here, we agree. We will do the best job we can while we are doing it.
Communicate? My 'communication' was my being caught in one of those ambush-captures in a hallway. There was no listening - only demanding.
Loyalty to what once was means we will continue to do our best. Also, loyalty to ourselves.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: My 'communication' was my being caught in one of those ambush-captures in a hallway.
What you do here is knee them in the groin and while they are wincing and moaning you have their attention. 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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There is nothing wrong with a hard deadline, the problem is the threat...
Let see from their point of view what will happened if the deadline missed by current team...
If they go and put you out, they not only have no product, but there is no promise at all that there will be in the near future...
So you maybe loose your job, but they will be in a much worst situation... And nobody to blame in front of the management - after all you are not there anymore...
If they do not put you out, in that case the tones will be higher than ever - to gain back reputation, and it will be very uncomfortable to work there...
So - instead to work on that project, spend your time on searching new job...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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You have some good insights. If they get rid of us, much of the existing infrastructure will continue to run but not grow, and eventually, everything collapses. Essentially, if they bring in a bunch of "smart young programmers" they'll start from scratch. Ironically, they'll probably hire more than we currently have (obvious implications here for a rational solution that will not be sought by management)
Management? They'll continue to blame us while they can. Until the new team has its problems. Amazingly, the company has experience with many outside vendors. The results have almost invariably sucked.
Alas, aside from contract work or other self employment, I'm way too grey for the IT industries' taste (at least in US).
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Another possibility is they will further 'trim' the department (looks good on the books - reduced 'running costs' - accountants love that), then when the department becomes too small to provide/sustain their next move to 'outsource' it (appears elsewhere in the ledgers, but as 'expenses' are claimable off income - even though more expensive it makes for a 'better' ledger.)
As one of the inner core: play your cards right and you could end up doing the same work you do today on contract (also means you can claim your own expenses off your income). I'd suggest have your own terms organised and ready: i.e. where/when you work, what you provide, what they provide, billing/payment terms... Don't forget to charge more: you've now got to cover your own medical, time off/vacation cover (4 weeks vacation = 8% of your income, medical - check cost of insurance plans plus some for typical sick days/doctor visits).
In fact be ready to 'suggest' that idea to them should they utter the smallest hints of it; if that's their thinking being on the same page from day zero will keep you in their good books. If yu can get it, it's a good way to move to working for yourself without missing a paycheck.
Sin tack
the any key okay
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W∴ Balboos wrote: I'm way too grey for the IT industries' taste
Dye your hair and trim your resume. No, I'm not kidding.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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