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Quote: covering all the areas that could be causing the problem would produce a question that was far too long
To be honest: as long as you cannot wrap it up, you don't have a problem but you produce the problem. Not only in the virtual world but also in real life.
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Mick,
I ran across this, you might find value in it:
Inherent to the solution of any problem, is its statement.
The FACT that you struggle to succinctly write the problem out, boiled down to it's salient points is why the solution is not jumping out at you, and also why when you EXPLAIN it to someone else, the solutions come more readily.
I ran across this situation handling a hardware tape error, and having to write the re-sync logic without spoiling the master data file we were updating. Literally a hundred lines of pseudo code was reduced to 6 well placed lines. (tracking when we were and were not in sync -> Implying deletes were safe. Updates are always safe, inserts are always safe).
The magic was realizing that I only had to protect against ERRONEOUSLY deleting records that I was forced the skip, once I do an insert or an update, than any sync error is fixed.
Prior to making it that simple, it seemed like a much harder problem to solve, and was...
So, the ART of stating the problem will help lead you and others to the solution faster.
Also, how many times after you explain it, does the other person say "so it's like X, so why can't we do Y"... Changing the type/flavor of the problem to an easier to solve/recognize problem... Same thing...
HTH
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That is all very true 95% of the time. Doing this gives yourself a fresh pair of eyes, and lets you see the problem (and thus the possible solution) in a different way, and I practice this technique on a fairly regular basis. Taking it further, I don't think I've written an article or tip where better ways of doing things have not jumped out at me and called me a bloody idiot, which is very much the same process.
However, the other 5% comes from one's own limited knowledge and experiences, and being able to bounce those may just trigger the experiences of someone else that you can cash in on. Working on my own, I have had to try to experiment and/or refactor code in order to solve these issues (which I am doing now for my current issue).
You'll find I have not posted many QA or forum questions over the last couple of years, but most of the ones that I have posted have not received a suitable answer. This just means they are hard. It is for that type of question that I believe the immediate banter could be of some use - it generally was when I was working in the team environment. There was generally someone that was able to say "what if you tried...?" or "I've seen something like that before". That sort of response normally came after a period of communication - not by just spelling out the issue.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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Mick,
Yes, I agree. I am fortunate to have a friend since Kindergarten that is a techie, with a High IQ, and a solid memory (Imagine talking about GPS coordinates, and he rattles off a box in the range you are using for an example, LOL).
I meet him at the Pub every week to solve the worlds problems, and usually pickup the tab.
We do the kind of thing, for each other, all the time. After we distill it down, we will converse over it until something pops...
I suggest you reach back to some previous co-workers, or reach out to others. Join a user group and make a friend who can double as a sounding board. (Just don't be one sided about it. I always take my friends calls. He sees every tree in the forest, my gift is discerning the type of forests).
And finally, email me. I have TeamViewer and GoToMeeting... "I'll be your daisy" (Doc Holliday by Val Kilmer)...
We can work out a date/time... C# isn't my strongest language, but problem solving and analysis are my strongest points.
HTH,
Kirk Out!
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I think what both of you are describing is:
Rubber duck debugging - Wikipedia[^]
...it's interesting when it happens, and it happens often; the very act of actively explaining the problem out loud tends to lead you to the solution, without the other person (or rubber duck) having to say a word!
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Have you tried researching StackOverflow?
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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I have, but I have found google actually does better, and returns relevant stack overflow threads anyway. I do try the MSDN forums, and have had success there before.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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A chat facility to find peers to help would be awesome, if
- The peers were not all n00bs. Honestly, the problem with asking a question on CodeProject is when you know more already than most of the respondants do. That could be handled with reputation, I suppose.
- The peers had sufficiently specialized knowledge. Doesn't matter how much Java or HTML you know, you won't be able to handle my advanced C++ question.
- There need to be enough peers to find someone to chat with, but not so many that the various conversational threads became confused.
This sounds just like CodeProject is already. Only, maybe a new, more ephemeral category of CodeProject for working out problems interactively. But I'm still not sure how different it would be to the existing CodeProject.
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... when your feet stick to the footpath because the soles of your shoes have melted.
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
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And how does that differ from west Texas? I really miss jumping into the pool when coming home, but not burning my feet on the way there.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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The water temp in our swimming pool is 32C (90F).
Cheers,
Mick
------------------------------------------------
It doesn't matter how often or hard you fall on your arse, eventually you'll roll over and land on your feet.
modified 14-Jan-17 4:12am.
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Joy.
The feeling of SWEATING while SWIMMING. I live in FL. We get that...
Kirk Out!
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CDP1802 wrote: And how does that differ from west Texas?
No-one's shooting at you.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: No-one's shooting at you.
or speaking Spanish.
Sin tack ear lol
Pressing the any key may be continuate
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Ok. Shooting was actually part of the job when I was in Texas.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
If software development were a circus, we would all be the clowns.
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Say 'Hello' to the Anti-Smartphone | Fox Business[^]
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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$150 dollar for a phone? You forgot the joke-icon?
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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the Light phone frees up your daily burden of buzzes, rings and alerts while still keeping in touch.
Actual phone calls are more time-consuming/burdensome than text or e-mail  So you're paying $150 to force people to burden you more by having to call. Am I missing something?
Also there's a mute button on phones for a reason.
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Obviously, you're missing the point.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Do tell then. Is it so you can have a phone that fits in your wallet, sit on it, and spend another $150? 
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Jon McKee wrote: Actual phone calls are more time-consuming/burdensome than text
Not to me. If you want my attention now, then call me, don't text me like a coward. If it is something that can wait, then email me. I wish text would die.
A phone, after all, is a device designed to make phone calls. 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Phone - conversations.
Text - short questions of immediate value (i.e. dinner at X at 6pm?)
E-mail - anything else.
I fail to see the cowardice in simply using the most efficient medium for the problem at hand. Anyways, back on topic. My point is if you only care about phone calls then why not disable/mute other notifications? You could also buy a normal, cheap phone. If you want to make any calls you also need to have the phone number memorized. Even $30 flip-phones have contact lists built-in.
I'm just debating the logic behind the product not whether it holds value for some people. I don't understand pet rocks either and look how well that did.
modified 14-Jan-17 16:35pm.
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Jon McKee wrote: I'm just debating the logic behind the product
Agreed. Doesn't seem worth it.
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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So they suggest you have a second phone,
... your usual 'smart phone' one for normal use,
and the second, I guess that makes it 'stupid phone' for work ('anti-smart' is too long).
Clearly they have marketing and help desk people in mind;
and as the plural of phone would be phine,
it's just all-around brilliant.
Sin tack ear lol
Pressing the any key may be continuate
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