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Sounds like really interesting work.
and, that sounds like a developer-test based framework which is founded upon you being the sole owner (of the work) which drives great results. Ownership is a big part of getting to good product quality, I think.
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I've owned business, managed, sold those and written code. There is a fine line between releasing perfect code and missing a window of opportunity. So many developers forget that they are employed because their software solves a problem and when it fails to solve something they look back and ask "Why did I get laid off?" I've found the trick to fixing bugs (and you all have them, and if you don't wait 5 minutes and you will) is to be nimble and fixing them quickly. 6 Month releases are a joke and cause users to struggle through potential nightmares and are ONLY around to justify QA groups and terrible managers. Some applications require test procedures which are always evolving and NEVER will be perfect because applications and their solutions evolve rapidly. If a developer is always being pushed for features and has little time to drive the entire application through it's paces I could see how someone would respond, "have someone test the product". There is always two sides to a story and if both aren't heard and weighed well that's crappy management or a market that demands it faster than you can deliver. You think Facebook was perfect the first release or even the second?
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I agree with this 100%.
The most important thing is :
working code
That does not mean you wait to ship until everything is perfect.
It means you focus on MVP (Minimum Viable Product).
Your point also goes to a point that I like to make about Product Ownership.
I think it drives quality if a dev feels ownerhship.
I have created numerous projects that I am the requirements gatherer, system analyst, developer, tester and deployer. I own it 100%.
You can see the app I created this way on multiple platforms:
Swift (iOS) app in app store : CYaPass on the App Store[^]
Android app in Google Play ==> CYaPass in Google Play[^]
As a windows winform app: ==> C'YaPass: Forget All Your Passwords | Get C'YaPass[^]
and even as a JavaScript, HTML5, Canvas app -- no install required, try it in your browser:
C'YaPass: Forget All Your Passwords | WebApp[^]
Iterative Dev
I had a few bugs in my initial release of winform app and I fixed them in iterations.
Same thing with the SPA (single page app) version. There are probably still some bugs in there, but you can get the app on every platform and that is what is important.
Great discussion.
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There are many types of tests, but most fall into one of two categories: unit and system.
The intent of unit tests is to establish that the low level functionality works as expected. They are also essential when refactoring and/or extending code. (I personally also find them very helpful in a) understanding code and b) improving the API.)
The intent of System tests is to show that the software DOESN'T work. This distinction is critical and is why system, or final, testing should not be done by developers and should be separate from engineering. It's also why automated testing only goes so far.
Over my career, I've had several brilliant testers. They challenged my software in ways I hadn't thought of. Even better, when they submitted a bug report, it was reproducible. In general, they also understood customer requirements better than the developers. (Another largely untapped resource by many developers and designers is support. When customers consistently complain about something, maybe it's time to change it.)
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Great post, thanks for adding to the conversation.
When I was in QA I always:
1. Insured I could reproduce the bug
2. Provided the exact steps to reproduce the bug (along with pertinent system details - browser info etc) in the bug report.
Now that I'm a dev I cannot stand to receive a bug report that says something like:
"I clicked on the button and the thing didn't work."
Argh!!! Which button? What thing?  What does didn't work mean?
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My first job (Programmer Trainee) was at an investment company. For any new project:
1) We first wrote "Input Edits".
2) But here a separate department of accountants started trying to break the edits, while..
3) We started writing master file loads
4) As the accountants get "valid" data through the new edits, the new file loads create "test" master files
5) In the meantime, we are now writing file compares.
6) As the test masters are being created, the master file maintenance programs are being written
7) Once the test masters are built, a target master is created and updated by the new input edits and master file maintenance.
8) At the same time, the file compares started running, feeding results back to the accountants that either
9) Add new cases to the test masters
10) Created new transactions for the parallel system
11) etc.
Now I just say to give me a copy of their database.
"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then".
― Blaise Pascal
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Pendulum - Still Grey[^]
An old favorite. Heard it again when I put my music on shuffle.
This song is from Pendulum's debut album, but only the sold-out first pressing. They've replaced it with an inferior song (by definition) on subsequent pressings. Luckily we still have internet.
Probably the most relaxing drum n bass I've ever heard 
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Great ... note taken 
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I'm back in the UK now, after 5 months in Africa North. Mrs Wife and our children returned this morning to leave me here to do a few small jobs - get a job, find a house, enroll the girls in school for September.
Easy life I reckon.
ps. The 20°C temperature drop has really done my joints the world of good*.
* None what so ever.
veni bibi saltavi
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Gee, you've been gone?
Welcome back.
Mongo: Mongo only pawn... in game of life.
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didn't know Hungary was in North Africa ?
I'd rather be phishing!
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Not even close. We have a home in Hungary but only spend the summers there now; after being there the week before Christmas.
veni bibi saltavi
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Mrs Wife trusts you to find a house?
On your own?
Wah-hey! Man cave, party den, big shed, treble garage, next door to pub ...
Waddya mean it's only got one bedroom? It's perfect! 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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On our budgie, we'll be lucky to get as much as 1 bedroom! We want to be able to move back to Woking, so we will have to take what we can afford rather than what we want. 
veni bibi saltavi
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: We want to be able to move back to Woking
I hear Sheerwater is relatively inexpensive, or a houseboat on the canal.
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RightMove have a different idea about Wellerville!
veni bibi saltavi
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: Only problem, you'd have to live in Luton.
You can't live in Luton. You can only exist.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Exist? Barely.
veni bibi saltavi
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I know what you mean: René Descartes would probably have come up with a whole different meme if he'd lived there...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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The first casualty of Luton is innocence.
veni bibi saltavi
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You can move in with me and Griff once we get our place sorted.
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I'm sure the girls would love sharing a caravan on the edge of a Southampton industrial estate with you two, a flock of sheep and the remnants of the South Coast fishing fleet!
veni bibi saltavi
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Count me right out - I've been to Southampton!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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OK, so it's only Scumhampton you dont like the sound of, we can change that. This is easier than the lesbian. 
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