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F-ES Sitecore wrote: Looking at job postings on freelancer sites they're usually worded such that you know they're planning on ripping you off.
How so, and which sites? I havent seen any job ads that made me suspicious, but I am in Europe.
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CableX1 wrote: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder?
Possibly yes, possibly no; there are no guarantees in this world, and it often depends on you being in the right place, with the right skill at the right time. Look around the sort of jobs that are on offer locally to get an idea of where the need is.
CableX1 wrote: Will I have job security?
Maybe, maybe not. Agian it varies.
CableX1 wrote: Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Again it varies and depends on where and what the demand is.
I have worked for various companies and as a freelancer. I have seen people made redundant (including myself), and had periods where we thought the company might fold at any minute.
The best way to go is to find a career that interests you and follow that. The rewards may or may not come to you, as with everything else in life.
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Should've said, read more about Schrödinger's cat[^]. 
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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I was a drummer in a rock band at my university called "Schrödinger's cat". Guess how many Physics Majors were in that band!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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None.
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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Wrong! Feel free not to guess again.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Hehehe i had to immediately think about this:
Wrong![^]
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What band?
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Quote: I was a drummer in a rock band at my university called "Schrödinger's cat".
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Wrong.
Peter Wasser
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Noisy, not always very musical, perhaps... but "wrong"? In what way?
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Never heard of the "Schrödinger's cat" university. Where is that?
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It's the one you may or not be attending until someone sees you at graduation!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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I work 9-5 (well really 7 - 330) M-F in an office environment.
Yes you can make a decent living ----- with experience
No, you do not have job security as no one really does in any industry these days.
I would think that getting clients as a freelancer would be almost impossible for someone with no experience. But I don't know for sure, never been a freelancer.
*Disclaimer* none of us are fortune tellers so we can't possible predict the future. Programming might get taken over by our robotic overlords by the time you get your first programming gig so your mileage may vary.
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Absolutely no idea.
Yes, it is possible to make a comfortable living - even a good one - as a developer it depends on too many factors to be able to say "go for it!". Do you have any aptitude for it? Any ability? Or are you just going to find that it is actually hard work and get bored? I dunno, and I suspect neither do you.
Not everybody that wants to can do it the job: it takes a "mind set" than many just don't have - for proof go look at the sewer that is QA and see how many people are having problems with basic stuff despite apparently having a job in the industry.
So assume you might be capable and invest your time, effort and a little bit of money in training: a good book1 or better a course to see if you can do it. Pick a language (C# is a good start) and start learning it properly. See if it fits you, and you fit it!
1: Addison-Wesley do good ones, as do Wrox, and Microsoft Press - avoid anything with multiple exclamation marks, "in XXX days", or "for dummies" in the title.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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OriginalGriff wrote: or "for dummies" in the title.
I disagree. OP just wants to get exposed to various languages and possibilities. I think the Dummies books are exactly what the OP should go for. Simple, not too in depth, but enough for OP to find out if they may want to continue in it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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CableX1 wrote: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder?
Certainly. You can even make a decent living as a not so decent programmer/developer/coder. I see it all the time.
CableX1 wrote: Will I have job security?
Whether you're a decent programmer or not, job security depends mostly on whatever mental illness the management has. And they almost all do, and it all affects the decision making. The real question is, will you have "career" security. Sure. I'd suggest finding companies that are writing the code that can then write the code the rest of us are writing. 
CableX1 wrote: Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible?
As a beginner programmer, no, not feasible (except for, well, that's another story.) To be a freelance programmer, you need experience, an established client base and most importantly, an established network of friends, coworkers, recruiters, and clients that will recommend you to others.
CableX1 wrote: I've heard plenty of horror stories of development being outsourced, etc.
That'll never go away. The better your skills are, the less you have to worry about that. And by skills, I mostly mean being able to speak the language of the client's/employer's country clearly. 
CableX1 wrote: Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer?
Sure. 9-5:
Cons: Ridiculous meetings, lots of interruptions, commuting, cubicles, pigeon holing, office politics
Pros: Peers, camaraderie, social contact
Freelancing:
Cons: Often solo, income great one week, 0 the next, more difficult to find contract work, often cleaning up someone else's mess, possible longer commutes
Pros: Often solo, income can be great, work is usually more challenging and interesting, contact is more often with the real decision makers, less office politics, much fewer meetings, sometimes remote
My 2c.
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote:
CableX1 wrote: Can anyone out there speak of their experiences as a programmer, either at a 9-5 kind of job or as a freelancer?
Sure. 9-5:
Cons: Ridiculous meetings, lots of interruptions, commuting, cubicles, pigeon holing, office politics
Pros: Peers, camaraderie, social contact
Freelancing:
Cons: Often solo, income great one week, 0 the next, more difficult to find contract work, often cleaning up someone else's mess, possible longer commutes
Pros: Often solo, income can be great, work is usually more challenging and interesting, contact is more often with the real decision makers, less office politics, much fewer meetings, sometimes remote
Methinks you forgot to mention:
9 - 5:
You work 9 - 5, then get to go home and not work, and even after a bad day by 7pm you're doing your own thing because nothing matters till 09:00 the next day.
Freelancing:
Sometimes you work 09:00 - 05:00 (yes, 20 hours straight), notice the sun coming up, shower, sleep for a few hours, and then at 09:00 repeat the same again (without even realizing 2 - 4 weekends have come and gone),
and sometimes you work 11:00 - 11:23 and then go surfing for 3 days ...
In either case above: your mind will will be on it 24/7 - and sometimes that will only start to fade up to a month after the project ends.
But then you will know you are a freelancer.
(... and being able to switch off at 5PM [and not give a s***] will be the life you dream of.)
Sin tack ear lol
Pressing the "Any" key may be continuate
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Robert den Hartog wrote: In either case above: your mind will will be on it 24/7 - and sometimes that will only start to fade up to a month after the project ends.
But then you will know you are a freelancer.
Good point and exactly my experience. Which I actually really don't mind, because even as a 9-5 employee, I experienced that.
Robert den Hartog wrote: (... and being able to switch off at 5PM [and not give a s***] will be the life you dream of.)
Nope, not built that way. I suppose I could discipline my mind to do that, but it's not my natural state.
Marc
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I didn't know you were gonna ask this question but an hour ago I posted a status on Facebook,
If you want to be a programmer, just because the pay rates are high, my recommendation for you: Stay away! #programming #tip #careeradvice Frankly speaking, there are rare chances for you to get a "good" job in computer science, or IT department. My own views are that you get a good job if you have a Microsoft (or any other similar giant's) certification. Most of the employees look for that. So, since you are beginners, let me walk you through the Eden of programming!
Quote: some resources on Mac and Windows programming.
Learn either one of them. Either do Mac programming or do Windows programming. Do not entangle yourself in both of them at the moment, one of them uses Swift or Objective-C language and other uses quite multiple languages, .NET framework and some web technologies.
Quote: Can I make a decent living being a programmer/developer/coder?
Yes, but your table will always be a mess. Your hardware or laptop components, sensors, keyboard etc. will always be left over and your wife (if there is) will always be mad at you! I don't have a wife.
Quote: Is being a freelance programmer a good idea or even feasible?
Do not do this. Freelancers don't get the respect that they deserve. Most of the times, they are asked to do a project of $1000 worth in under $100 with 5-10 modifications later. Even if they say something, they get a bad voting by the recruiter. That is one of the reasons I left the freelancing world! Build your own applications, sell them, monetize them using advertisements or sell in-app purchases such as premium options and features. You will get a good earning from there. Otherwise, get an on-premises job.
Quote: Will I have job security?
In most of the freelancing projects, there is very less security of the payments. On the premises and in the offices, you get full payments for your monthly job. Your job is safe and you work in a group, where you get to eat and talk in a group. For a programmer, that is the only social life he gets.
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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Yes, you can make a good living as a programmer/developer/coder software engineer. But in order to do that, you need to know how to build correctly functioning, performant, secure, extensible, scaleable and maintainable software. And that comes from writing code. Lots and lots of code. And making mistakes. And learning from other developers.
It's a great ride - keep at it, and I think you'll enjoy it!
/ravi
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The danger here is you're asking a bunch of hardcore tech-heads for their warped opinions! Personally, I think that if you couldn't program in assembly language before blowing the candles out on your 10th birthday cake then you must wholly inadequate as a programmer.
The reality though is that most people with IT jobs aren't that into it and get by just fine. If someone is going to pay you, it won't be for the elegance of your code. It'll generally be for producing something which is just good enough but does what they want. In finance (my domain), you can earn an absolute fortune writing little twiddly Excel VBA macros with a bit of business knowledge because finance loves Excel. Hacky or not, no-one cares.
I don't do that though, because I hate Excel. Freelancing is very doable, as you are super-expendable as opposed to a permanent employee who you have to make redundant + make all sorts of other sacrifices and who might scream cries of 'unfair dismissal' when you try and boot them out.
Outsourcing happens a lot, but they usually reverse it after a few years having realized what a bloody awful idea it was in the first place.
As someone else said, in this mean world there is little job security or loyalty any more, but no more so in IT than any other industry. I say go for it, but for the love of God, don't do Java...
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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Rob Philpott wrote: The danger here is you're asking a bunch of hardcore tech-heads for their warped opinions! Personally, I think that if you couldn't program in assembly language before blowing the candles out on your 10th birthday cake then you must wholly inadequate as a programmer
You've pretty much proven your first point with what immediately followed it.
What curriculum even teaches the kids assembly nowadays?
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Yes you can, but be prepared to start at the bottom, and suck up as much knowledge from those around you. In my experience, don't other with certifications, experience is way more valuable.
If you are good/lucky you can work your way up the chain pretty quickly. To do this, be prepared to move fairly often [maybe every 2 years] to keep yourself motivated and to learn different skills/industries. If you're prepared to move often, job security is probably less relevant.
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