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I knew Win 8 sucked so I didn't upgrade - and I informed myself on the equipment compatible with Win 7 before buying new PCs.
I know Win10 sucks hard so I won't upgrade to it - again I'll keep my Win7 until the hardware will be supported. If a version of VS needs Win10 I won't buy it - I don't code at home, and at work the responsibility for my platform isn't mine, nor the management of my time.
Until the next one... after all I used WinXP at home up until 2012 and at work until 2016, with negligible problems on either software or games. So... if it sucks it remains there on the shelf.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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If you've never upgraded to W8 or W10, how can you be so certain that they suck?
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Reviews, experience from my peers, system requirements, complains, look&feel.
I never ever jump on the upgrades and take my time seeing all the various problems that arise. Games that I play eagerly that don't work on 8 and 8.1, bugs on new games... I speak only for my home PC, at work I don't care the OS they give me. If it hampers my productivity it is not my problem.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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den2k88 wrote: Reviews, experience from my peers, system requirements, complains, look&feel.
So you're letting others form your opinions for you.
This space for rent
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote: So you're letting others form your opinions for you.
Aren't we all guilty of that.
Like not frying and eating the stuff in the toilet, but instead, flushing it away, broth and all?
The advancement of the species is to share information without having to do everything yourself: learning from others and all that sort of stuff.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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There's a radical difference between eating a turd sandwich and trying Windows 10. There's a joke in there somewhere.
This space for rent
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I only have one machine. Losing days to backup, try, fix, try, fix, fraking up, restoring just to try something new? Not a chance in hell, nor in heaven for that sake.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Just run yourself a Docker instance and try it out, or run up a VM.
This space for rent
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Too much hassle for too little gain. When not trying it out or upgrading to it will be more troublesome than changing I'll do it.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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I used to have only one computer, back then I either had dual-boot configured or I swapped main HDD to try other things.
Now I have the chance to have many computers at home. So when something new comes around I upgrade the least useful machine and try it out there.
Windows 10 tryout was so good now that all but one of my machine have Windows 10 (the one left with Windows 7 is connected to my TV and runs Media Center).
At work I'm on Windows 7 and every single day I miss Windows 8.1/10 features like taskbar that extends to multiple monitors and app icons only on the monitor they are on. Windows 10 brought an amazing scrolling feature which have been in X-Windows since forever: scroll inactive window just by hovering your mouse over that window.
I wouldn't go back to pre 8.1 versions of Windows.
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My experience with each one upgrade I ever made is worse than hellish, each freaking time.
Update video drivers: black screen, even during clean reinstallation of Windows (somehow the id-10t loaded the resident drivers instead of the CD ones). Upgrade windows: hardware not functional and loss of data partition. Upgrade of Linux: oops, kernel panic!
Install updates on work computer: got out of domain, VC++6 crashing during compile and VB6 crashing at startup.
Updated Android on phone: 4 crashes/reboots per day, lost calls, battery life halved.
I do not upgrade/update, period. Until upgrading/updating is unavoidable I do not do it, ever. Mind that most the times every other person I knew had done the same upgrades without any problem, and that I followed the instructions clearly and took extra precautions.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Actually, upgrades to operating systems don't have to be the pain that you assume they are.
Since you are running Windows 7, I would get virtualization software (I use VMWare Workstation), and create a virtual Windows 8 machine. And then you'll realize immediately why Microsoft went to 8.1 almost immediately. And then you can try Windows 10.
I like 8.1, and dislike Windows 10 after running it on a virtual machine for 4 months. Therefore, I shutdown 10, and never use it except once in awhile to pick up the updates.
Virtual is the way to go - you can get comfortable with a new operating system, without mucking around with your main OS, and if you like the update, you can do one of two things - install the new OS on over your main OS, or continue using your main OS just to bring up a virtual machine of your new OS.
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Trying to find the joke in there. A FIFY maybe will do it:
Pete O'Hanlon wrote: Is there a radical difference between eating a turd sandwich and trying Windows 10.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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A turd sandwich doesn't change itself with each new whim of the chef ... ?
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I'm not convinced that there is a difference... I urgently needed to use my Win10 PC this morning before rushing out the door to the office. I boot up to find that Win10 finally decided to update to the anniversary edition (which I didn't actually want, but it's not like we're given a choice any more). 20 minutes later, Windows finally booted. I received two notifications:
1. Updates were installed (Really? Hadn't noticed...)
2. Do you need help fixing your sound? (Huh? Oh, yay. You broke my sound in the update. Thankfully all it had done was switch the output source.)
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I'm letting others raise the head over the trench for me. If their blood and brains stain my coat I take it as a good indicator that it's not a good idea.
Learning form other people experiences is the key to evolution, don't you think? Wrestling a completely logical statement to insult is instead the key to wu mao.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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In the case of trying a different OS, it's hardly satisfying an evolutionary imperative. And you have seen more than enough anecdotes on here from people that they have had no negative experiences that there's at least a decent chance that you would be okay.
This space for rent
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I'm hearing much more complains about screwed up updates so I'll wait until the updates will be sporadic. I let the others go first then claim victory when I enter the fray an hour later. I did it for XP and 7 and found myself very comfortable indeed.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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I ignored other people's opinions over Vista, and ended up having to do a lot of work to make Vista behave (which was worth it, because, properly configured, Vista was a lot better than XP).
I ignored other people's opinions over w8, and ended up having to do way more work than I'd had to do with Vista (which was Not worth it, because it was still less usable than weven).
None of that extra work should have been necessary. The operating system has one job: to allow access to hardware and programs. All the extra "add-ons" cause about half the problems, and the inability of the OS to do its one job well cause the rest.
I didn't ignore people's opinions over winio, but still ended up with a winio tablet ... and it turns out that the other people were right again. I love having a tablet that can run windows-based programs, but I absolutely detest the way the operating system treats the machine -- and by proxy, me.
The thing is, it's not MS haters complaining about Vista, w8, and winio, it's people like me, who have been ardent MS supporters for years. The @rseholes and the linux evangelists who just want to bitch aren't worth listening to, but those people are.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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den2k88 wrote: Reviews, experience from my peers, system requirements, complains, look&feel.
That's what I've heard too. Most folks, especially the anti-Windows folks tell the same story.
I know there are imperfections and I haven't upgraded to Win 10 yet because of it, or because of what I've heard from others. I'm just too busy to do the update. 
Today, I'm about to update it to Win 10 because I need to test out the docker support for .net core. So fingers cross. 
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Vincent Maverick Durano wrote: So fingers cross.
Think about that - why would you need to worry even a little?
Well - maybe your expectations are low due to the experience of others - apparently people's who's description of their experience you trust?
Some (anti-Windows you call them) accept that they don't need to have their house burn down to understand the danger of playing with fire.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos wrote: why would you need to worry even a little?
Of course worrying a bit is normal as it could break my existing working app that is running in previous version.
W∴ Balboos wrote: Well - maybe your expectations are low due to the experience of others - apparently people's who's description of their experience you trust?
I don't trust anyone. I can't even trust myself sometimes
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I'm not anti-Windows at all - I've been, in the past, as a teenager discovering Linux.
Now I consider myself an engineer, I choose what I deem to be best for the objective. Also, as a developer, I adore Windows API, it's 10 times more powerful than standard POSIX and under *nix outside of POSIX there is just an enormous junkyard of incomplete and incompatible libraries and frameworks. Thanks but no thanks.
I stick to my experiences of upgrading from 3.1 to 95 to 95 OSR2 to NT4 to 98 to 98SE to ME to XP... Most of the times I had a burning axe due to early upgrades, now I can usually sit comfortably. Also true for drivers, most of the times I had to zero my Pc and rebuild was due to upgrades that solved none of the problems I had but created Hell-On-Wheels for me instead.
My mantra now is: do not change what works. Either it solves a problem you are experiencing or it adds a functionality you utterly need, or upgrades are moot.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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I upgraded to Win 10 and have never had a problem with it. Maybe because I don't play any games - only use it for development and browsing.
Sure it needs a bit of tweaking to make it behave but with Classic Shell installed because I don't like tiles basically all the rest is exactly the same under the hood, apart from very minor differences, to XP.
My laptop is Win 10 now and also my tablet so I guess I have embraced Windows 10!
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Vincent Maverick Durano wrote: Most folks, especially the anti-Windows folks tell the same story.
Couldn't care less about the anti Windwos folks. They aren't the ones who did upgrade before the free upgrade presumably ran out and posted about the resulting issues. Those who did upgrade early are not the anti Windows folks, or else they wouldn't have run Windows before the upgrade.
I ran Windows 8 (home) on my laptop for more than a year and hated it. And I'm not even talking about the UI (I did install ClassicShell). I'm talking about missing baseline apps, forced upgrades at inopportune moments (e. g. at 5% battery power without a power outlet in reach), repeated resets of system settings to M$ defaults, and an entirely messed up configuration system that made restoring the settings to my preferences a pita.
I never upgraded to 8.1 because it fixed none of the issues I had, but introduced even more telemetry spying than 8.0 already had, with less control. It added back a few of the utilities 8.0 removed, but instead of just adding back the old programs, they came back as apps with considerably reduced functionality.
I had a look at W10, but the forced updates are a killer for me, based on my own past experience with forced updates in 8.0. The settings and configurations are better than in W 8, but still too much spread out, and therefore considerably worse than they are in W 7. I do hate the parts of the system that use the flat design, and sometimes you just can't avoid it: flat means it's harder to distinguish which widget has the focus, and which parts of the UI are in fact actionable elements. I have no idea why anyone would think this is a good design: it definitely decreases discoverability! E. g. when there's a list of items at the left side of the window, I have no way to tell what clicking on ony of them will do, if at all. Depending on the context, it may do nothing, invoke some function, or switch the window to a different tab or sub menu. I'ts all trial and error.
And let's not talk about telemetry and other data being sent back to MS: not only is it impossible to switch it all off (MS confirmed as much), the settings that do reduce the data stream are spread out all over the system (like so many other things that you'd think should be treated on a single settings page). Just to be clear: I don't mind so much that Microsoft can take a look at this information, not even that any US-based three letter org may force them to hand that data over. What I do mind about is that sooner or later even MS will be hacked, and then all bets are off who gets to lay their grubby fingers on my personal data! I don't want any company to store anything about me, beyond the bare minimum they require to do business with me. I do understand that these companies do have good reasons to ask for these data, and to want to store them for analysis or whatnot, but they should also understand and accept my preference to play safe!
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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