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The Shogun is a truck (from my point of view).
As for the the first reference, make, model make all the difference.
Which is really my point - my Saturn SL2 (killed by Sandy's saltwater bath) did 40+ mpg highway.
That being said, there's a mental attitude in the US, oddly covering both ends of the political spectrum: from the left, they think a big beast is safer - and then drive horribly because they feel like they'll win in an accident. From the right, they think it's their right - nay, their duty - to over-consume at every opportunity. Possibly with the perception that it's a way to antagonize the left. They also need a car big enough for their gun-rack.
But the rest of us want to bypass as many fueling stations as possible.*
* Except the wealthy who must flaunt their wealth by showing poor judgement.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Ummm, wow, that's an intellectually broad statement. Almost breathtaking in it's lack of facts (your political commentary). I'm on the right, and honestly, I have never known anyone to just over-consume. I know what I don't like is someone in my pocket telling me how I must spend my treasure.
Oh, correction - John Simmons of 'MERICA! is one person I am acquainted with 
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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charlieg wrote: I know what I don't like is someone in my pocket telling me how I must spend my treasure.
Oh Brave New World!
It usually comes down to a choice between those who know the right thing to do and those who know what's good for you. Or somthing like that. Anyway, if you send the treasure to me, you can tell anyone telling you how to spend it that it's already gone.
charlieg wrote: I have never known anyone to just over-consume.
Actually, that's so damn subjective a perception (self, or of others) there's usually no sensible way to judge. But then, this is the lounge, so I take up that unwelcome burden.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Of course it's subjective. It's like Al Gore telling me my car will destroy the universe, and his average electric bill is 10x the normal usage:
"Gore's mansion, located in the posh Belle Meade area of Nashville, consumes more electricity every month than the average American household uses in an entire year, according to the Nashville Electric Service (NES). "
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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They don't anymore. Both Chevvies I have had in the US recently, Cruze and Impala, have been surprisingly efficient.
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Munchies_Matt wrote: They don't anymore. Both Chevvies I have had in the US recently, Cruze and Impala, have been surprisingly efficient.
Well, ANY car is gonna be efficient when it needs to be towed to the dealership because of yet another recall.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Why aren't BMW getting sued for fixing their indicator tests?
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Why should they?
They're working.
Oh, hang on, no they aren't.
Yes they are.
No, gone again.
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Yes, Dougal[^]. 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Because Bavaria, they would offer you so much beer, you'd forget about it
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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F*** Volkswagen! Sincerely.
No I don't care very much that they've been cheating with the exhaust fumes.
But a culture of cheating is unfortunately spreading within a company.
I've just parted with €1700 in exchange for a new timing chain.
To lower fuel consumption, the "engineers" at Volkswagen has weakened the chain to the level of not being reliable any more. This is apparently a known problem but on the model I own it's not taken care of as goodwill for some reason.
The best part is that the engine also has a timing belt. Yes you read that right. It has a timing chain AND a timing belt. One for each cam shaft.
Earlier this year I parted with even more money after having to exchange both rear calipers. The handbrake is electric and both engines seized because they leaked and got full of moisture.
A new exhaust system is also costing €900.
So it's apparent to me that Volkswagen has become a company with French quality but German prices. Bad combo.
So, any suggestions for what brand to buy now?
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: The handbrake is electric
Some things on a car really should stay mechanical 
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And that's only for being able to make space for two cup holders.
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The handbrake on some Japanese cars is a pedal, making it a footbrake instead 
Saves space, and keeps it mechanical too.
(I'm not recommending a Japanese vehicle to replace a Volkswagen, though. BMW?)
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Indivara wrote: I'm not recommending a Japanese vehicle to replace a Volkswagen
Why not?
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Because I drive one and it can barely pull its own weight. It's the type that Top Gear describes here
http://www.quotes.net/show-quote/82350[^]
Actually I guess it depends on what you use to replace the Volkswagen with. Something like a Subaru should be fine.
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A Subaru is very high on the list at the moment. the obvious drawback is boot space.
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Too true, the stuff I have worked on has led me to belive Electronics are fine for most things but some things shouldn't be. Fly By Wire I was nervous of until I worked on some aircraft stuff and was supprised how strict it was (still think they should have a manual back though  )
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I've had good results with Mitsubishi (Shogun / Pajero) and Mercedes (A Class), but for gawds sake stay as far as possible away from Lancia. Yes, they are fun ... but ... reliability and parts are ... um ... difficult ...
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Lancia isn't even on the map. And Mercedes rusts a bit to much for my taste.
Not rusting in the climate I live in plus having a solid reputation for reliable engines was two of my reasons for buying the Volkswagen to start with.
Well at least it hasn't rusted.
But I believe their reputation for reliability has gotten a Titanic sized dent in it.
I'll take a look at Mitsubishi, but if I remember correctly their boots are a bit on the smaller side, which is a deal breaker for me.
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Fifteen years ago, during my first visit to the US, was discussing with US colleagues about the basic functionalities of a car.
Coming from the 'third world', I said three things - 'Should safely go forward. Safely go backward. Safely stop'.
This was vehemently argued upon, and my US counterparts said that a car has many more items in its functionality list.
Looks like modern car manufacturers are forgetting these three simple requirements. Bells and whistles are more important than basic functionality.
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I guess basic functionality is taken for granted.
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You know, it seemed like the relative quality of American cars was improving.
Now, I realize the true key to understanding this is the word "relative".
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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You know, there are many American cars on my wish list.
Amongst others:
Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz '59
Hudson Eight.
Pierce Arrow, any.
...
But the youngest one on this list is probably the '65 Mustang.
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: So, any suggestions for what brand to buy now?
American. 
Don't forget, VW was created by Hitler.
Marc
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