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Hi all,
Something is puzzling to me. It's autumn where I live, and the new school year has started and people are coming in from their summer vacations.
What I want to know is, what kind of crack are the companies in Southern California smoking, and where can I get some?
By the way, I am employed; however, I like to keep "feelers out," just in case. I suspect other people do the same. Anyhow, wages for developers are in the LOW five figure ranges and all the job ads say, "New graduates wanted."
What new graduates? I mean, is this really the time of the year to be posting want ads for new graduates? I thought the new crop of graduates was available in the spring/summer. And what's with $45,000/year in Southern Calif. for a senior developer? I guess I'd apply for a job paying such crap, if I was living on the sofa in my Mom's basement (which I'm not, thankfully).
Anyone have any ideas?
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Wow that's quite a small payment for a senior developer ?
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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HobbyProggy wrote: Wow that's quite a small payment for a senior developer ?
Lucky them, Senior Developers here are lucky to get 25.000 €/year...
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
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Wuut ?
Did i get the term wrong? senior means to me that the person has at least 5-10 y experience, so no new graduates.
If that's the case i stay where i am.
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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Senior in Italy means a person who has at least 10-15 years of experience, and yes, that is their paycheck. New graduates range from 10k to 18k / year.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
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Okay... and i thought im bad payed 
In Germany range for (graduate) softwaredevelopers is 35k-42k / year
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
modified 9-Oct-15 7:10am.
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That's why you have endless queues of Italian engineers coming in Germany to work.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
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Well yeah, now i get the picture.
Rules for the FOSW ![ ^]
if(this.signature != "")
{
MessageBox.Show("This is my signature: " + Environment.NewLine + signature);
}
else
{
MessageBox.Show("404-Signature not found");
}
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Quote: That's why you have endless queues of Italian engineers coming in Germany to work.
Don't forget the endless queues of Syrians! Hey, there must be some programmers among the refugees! 
How do we preserve the wisdom men will need,
when their violent passions are spent?
- The Lost Horizon
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What?????
Well, tell me the monthly rent of an Apartment (around 60 qm) there. And also Tax rate. Then I can calculate others!
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Apartment rent, 60 qm, not in the capital nor Milan, in the filthiest areas: about 600€/month (7k/year), considering "condominial expenses" and heating, that are usually kept out from the rent price (that is, you must pay them additionally). I'm not considering bills of any kind, usually another 100 €/month of gas, water, electricity and phone/internet. Not considering the taxes related car ownership nor the cost of public transportation.
Tax Rate: the amount is pre-taxed at about 30% of the gross income. There are around 1k € of taxes that aren't income-bound.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
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Apartments are really not cheap I see! And did you mention the salary range after 30% tax deduction?
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Yes yes - I'm used to do the counts like that.
Usually (and I'm talking specifically of myself, living with my girlfriend) 12k €/year are needed to provide for basic necessities, being cheap but not to the detriment of the overall quality. Means not buying the branded products but also not buying the lowest quality, trying many products to understand which have a good quality/price ratio, buying raw materials and processing them (chicken chest cost way less if bought whole and then cut at home), keeping an average temperature in house, making good use of any discount, using the washing machine in the week-end (electricity costs less in the evening and week-ends) and so on. Small tips that added all together save money.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
"When you have eliminated the JavaScript, whatever remains must be an empty page." -- Mike Hankey
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Brian C Hart wrote: What new graduates? I mean, is this really the time of the year to be posting want ads for new graduates? I thought the new crop of graduates was available in the spring/summer.
Technically, Yes.
But I know many freshly gradutees who first get themselves a few weeks or months vacation (backpacking around Europe, Asia, etc.). Those guys would be available now.
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Vacation from what? Not working?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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The stress of posting homework in QA and being told we don't do that for them? 
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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Hey, some do have higher standards 
I've been a member here before I graduated, and never was one of the pleazz codeezzz guys.
Neither is Brisingr, and as far as I'm concerned he is a student.
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Yeah, but you probably didn't go "oh, I've graduated - I'll take a few months off before I have to start earning a living or even looking for a job"
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I had about 1.5 months of free time between graduating and the military - Well, it was vacation days and overtime I had collected over the years I had to take.
Seriously, if you are a student and have saved up money during your pre-graduation time there is nothing wrong with spending it on a time-out, as longs as it feels like the right thing to do for the individual.
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I'm out of school for a while. Ivy Tech had issues keeping track of student data. After they lost my data for the sixth time in a month, I dropped out and left (as did about 90% of the rest of the students).
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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They all missed the first "deadline" for their thesis so they're graduating in August/September on the last possible day that could still be counted as not being the next year.
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hypotheses:
1. "new graduates" can be brainwashed/socialized/manipulated to extreme working hours ... for the same pay ... more easily; they are "pliable," and less likely to create "issues" for management.
2. immigration is increasing the number of potential employees who will work for less
3. the number of jobs is shrinking for a variety of reasons including macro-economic factors, the increasing prevalence of using sub-contractors, etc. as a way to avoid companies paying for health-care or any other benefit.
«I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center» Kurt Vonnegut.
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Senior? Junior? They're all worth paying the same as they both solve problems the same way;
"How to convert page to PDF? Give me codes it's urgent."
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== "Recent graduates who don't have the skills required by more reputable employers and are now so desperate for any job that they'll work for peanuts."
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Drop your innocent-coder killing knifes. 
Okay,
When the whole world knows making "+" to concatenate strings does things less efficient than using string-builder, why not the compiler by itself optimize this with string-builder internally?
Compiler folks leave these options open for real men to exercise their performance tuning muscles?
Converting "+" concats into stringbuilder is becoming a standard item in code-review menu.
Slackers in my team love to do these no-brainer optimizations. 
Starting to think people post kid pics in their profiles because that was the last time they were cute - Jeremy.
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