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_Maxxx_ wrote: My down vote may have much merit, but I don't have the time/inclination to enter a debate about it.
Then it has no merit, and serves no constructive purpose. The user knows that someone didn't like something, but has no recourse to find out what it was, or to engage in conversation to fix it or discuss it.
Your down vote without accountability, satisfies your ego, but nothing else.
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Slacker007 wrote: serves no constructive purpose
Not so. Voting for something gives a measure of popularity (if nothing else) of the entity in question.
With many, many articles on the same subject, how is the user to determine which are the best?
By having votes.
The reasons for those votes, while they may be interesting to the author, are of much less import to the user - especially the casual user who is just looking for info on how to do something.
You seem to be looking at everything from one single author's perspective rather than from that of the other 9,999,999 users who just want to find the best article.
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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If everyone felt the way you did, then Chris would not be having a debate about it.
I disagree with your points. Any further discussion would not be productive, IMHO.
Cheers. 
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Slacker007 wrote: f everyone felt the way you did, then Chris would not be having a debate about it
If he didn't have a debate about it, how would he know what everybody thought? 
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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Slacker007 wrote: it has no merit
You don't get to decide that.
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Slacker007 wrote: has no recourse to find out what it was, or to engage in conversation to fix it or discuss it.
also false.
Slacker007 wrote: Your down vote without accountability, satisfies your ego, but nothing else.
also false.
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I do not have a problem exposing my vote(s).
On the other hand, I don't give much thought to who up/down votes me. In fact, I prefer not to know.
The change to eliminate down voting has made the Lounge a rather moribund place.
It may be best to leave well enough alone.
What we got here is a failure to communicate
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Ah - but with non-anonymous voting we can bring back down voting.
Just to stir things up
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I would like votes to be anonymous and here are the reasons:
- People may or may not voice their true opinions if their identities are revealed.
- Even if we make putting an explanation mandatory, there will be instances where people would post unrelated or inappropriate comments like, "I don't like you". This could well lead to YouTube like comment trails.
- Yes, there will be people who will put relevant comments, but if someone really wants to share the view, they any ways do it.
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I agree with you regarding anonymous voting. Besides, if it were non-anonymous, who can be sure that false identities are not being used?
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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I upvoted you 
Other forums I visit shows who up / down voted you. I think it will eliminate a lot of issues. It will of course introduce some others, but I think it's worth a try. Anonymity gives people a sense of power and allows them do things they otherwise wouldn't. People are brave on the internet.
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I like piebalds idea of allowing the user to choose. I think he will be surprised by the result.
As an additional bit, add the weighting applied to the vote, this is something I do take note of. If some low rep dweeb feels the need to downvote I am happy to let it go, a high rep I might engage for an explanation/advice.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Personally I don't mind revealing how I vote, and I don't mind knowing who votes me up or down, but this isn't about me is it?
What do you want the vote to measure, quality or popularity?
If you show who's voting the downvotes will disappear and the rating will lose all meaning, just like it did for the articles. And just like it is for the Lounge.
Is it just me that thinks the Lounge was a lot more interesting in the old times before it was filled with daily whatever, or is it my memory that's playing tricks on me.
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Actually it's precisely about you. And about everyone using the forums. I want your opinion, not what you think someone else's opinion is.
Jörgen Andersson wrote: What do you want the vote to measure, quality or popularity?
And again this is really about you: what do uou vote for when you vote for a forum message? Quality of the post, a reaction to the topic, or (say) a thumbs-up to the poster for posting what what posted?
Jörgen Andersson wrote: it just me that thinks the Lounge was a lot more interesting in the old times
Everything was better in the old times. The air, the water, the ice cream from down the street. The conversations in the lounge. Especially the ones about "the lounge was so much better when..." that are over 10 years old
I don't actually see that downvoting will make conversations more interesting. Disagreeing and posting your opinion makes lounge discussions more interesting.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Ah, but you see, what I want is not what I think is best for the site/community.
But at the moment I have tp cook for the kids, and put them to bed.
I'll give you a proper answer later, reflecting both sides of my opinions.
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Right here we go:
First, my very own personal opinion. I want complete transparency!
As simple as that.
Do I believe it would work? Well not really. People wouldn't use the downvote which would render the ratings useless.
And the rating is indeed important, not just for the articles but also the Q&A and the technical forums.
So what do I vote for. Clever solutions, being helpful above the normal, teaching something new, correcting my knowledge or simply amusing me.
On the other hand I also vote for low quality posts, that are simply erroneous, or incomplete, or someone being an arse.
You know, the normal stuff.
So as I've said before, the vote means different things in different situations. And that's why I ask, do you want to measure quality or popularity, votes or likes?
Or why not both?
Would it work having both likes and votes? I don't know.
You will always have misuse, but maybe there would be a better balance between up and downvotes, if people could like a post instead of simply upvoting.
I'm specifically thinking of one "massproducer" of articles where the articles are of a pretty low quality as such, but he gets tons of upvotes because they are in the form of a walkthrough which indeed is very helpful for people being new to a subject.
So what about the Lounge. Well I suppose I'm simply getting old. But that's another post and another subject actually.
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: Would it work having both likes and votes?
It would, actually. If done properly.
Jörgen Andersson wrote: First, my very own personal opinion. I want complete transparency! [...] Do I believe it would work? Well not really
I'm not sure I agree.
I get the feeling everyone's focussing on the minority, not the general majority.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: I get the feeling everyone's focussing on the minority, not the general majority.
Which majority are you thinking about?
The 80000 users online or the 500? active users? (What is that number actually?)
I think the active majority would stop downvoting if we have complete transparency.
So the choice ends up being between transparency and a functional rating system, and while transparency is (should be) more important for the active users, a functional rating system is more important for the silent majority I believe.
So here's the twist, while a functional rating system is important for the silent majority, having a happy active user group is important for having an actual functional rating system.
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: The 80000 users online or the 500? active users? (What is that number actually?)
that's what i thought; the 11.7m members or the 500(?) active users?
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Much as I swear about people downvoting my posts and would like to know who did it - and why, I don't think revealing that is a good idea. Not without some sort of control, that is. Some people can handle it in a mature way. Others can't - heck they can't even with anonymous votes and go on a witch hunt against the person they THINK downvoted them. Imagine what those people will do if they know for sure...
So IF the anonymity is removed, there would need to be some constriction on how many of another person's posts one person can downvote.
Another thing: There is (or there should be) a difference between downvoting something and voting it as abuse/spam. Right now, in the forums where downvoting has been disabled, some people take to the abuse/spam vote instead merely because they might not like another person - or so is my general impression anyway.
That kinda undermines the meaning of abuse/spam.
I say: Bring back anonymous downvoting in all forums (perhaps with the above mentioned restriction) - and make the abuse/spam votes non-anonymous. They're much more serious, and people should be able to see/judge if someone is abusing that system.
My 5 cents, for what they're worth
Everything said: If the anonymity is completely removed, I wouldn't have a problem with that either. It's good if people (myself included) are forced to stand by their opinions.
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
modified 9-Sep-15 2:29am.
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Johnny J. wrote: say: Bring back anonymous downvoting in all forums (perhaps with the above mentioned restriction) - and make the abuse/spam votes non-anonymous.
Agreed.
Oh, by the way, I upvoted this.
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An age old proverb - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
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Ah, but maybe it IS broke! Who gets to decide that? 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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Johnny J. wrote: Ah, but maybe it IS broke! Who gets to decide that?
Last I heard, it was Chris.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time - a tremendous whack.
--Winston Churchill
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Chris, an idea: I respect that you want to have opinions as well, but why not make this a yes/no option poll and have people opinionate in the comments? Just to get an overall idea... 
Just out of curiosity: What suddenly made you take up this debate again? anything happen? 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
modified 9-Sep-15 2:27am.
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