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Member 11800253 wrote: Blast you and your "happy song"! I too wanted to stay with 2008, but couldn't get the express edition to register after my Win 7 upgrade! 2008 was not only prettier, it was clearer as well. Still .Net 4 has some nice parallel stuff which makes it almost worthwhile.
LOL! I purchased VS2008 Standard and a copy of Active Reports 6 a few years back and have been boilerplating things around those for quite awhile. With those and any version of SQL Server I can build just about anything I need to.
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Also a big thanks to the detailed view from the inside! 
Long live W7 or Linux with many VMs is my new home for long! ![Java | [Coffee]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/coffee.gif)
Member 11800253 wrote: Why oh why do they have make everything so flat and bland!
Well... who has the rights on all the new Star Trek display look?
Paramount? 
Something about which we often break our head:
"In the name of the Compiler, the Stack, and the Bug-Free Code. Amen."
(source unknown)
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Agreed completely! I was even one of the preview "test subjects" ... uhm, would that make me a guinea pig? I fear more like a SUCKER!
Anyhoo... most of those complaints I've had even last year. MS simply ignored them as well as many others. They even went so far as to delete them from the preview testers forums ... i.e. "You complained? What? Where's your complaint?"
So yes, MS has finally made me start mini-hurling every time I see anything from them. I'm still tied onto them through AutoDesk (who's not much better) though, but there's now only one single program I cannot get working on my Kubuntu workstation and cannot find any alternative to: Revit. If I can get that sorted, all my Windows CDs/DVDs are going to change to frisbees.
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Very nice bit of writing. You helped me make up my mind. I'm going to have my slightly clunky old Win7 machine refurbed and stick with it. Barring some miraculous development in Redmond, where Windows starts looking / acting like Windows again, my next OS will likely not be from MS.
Sometimes the true reward for completing a task is not the money, but instead the satisfaction of a job well done. But it's usually the money.
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I'll bite:
1. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, apparently. I think the flat design is the best Windows has looked ever. If I never see an unnecessary drop shadow or rounded corner, it'll be too soon.
4. It's not only browsers, Win 10 changed a lot of my default applications. I don't mind Edge, except that it's not usable until it gets plugins/extensions.
6. Cortana: it only works when the language of the OS and the culture match. So it won't ever work for me.
7. metro apps weren't full-screen in Win 8.1.
While 10 is not perfect, I don't see any reason to go back to 8.1 or 7.
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Why am I not surprised...
Microsoft appears to be taking a path whereby every product has to some how be everything o everyone. I am finding this especially true with their Visual Studio releases.
I was hoping that Windows 10 would be somewhat of a return to the Windows 7 style. However, with the rush for everything new it appears from your observations and others that I have read that Microsoft is attempting to satisfy those who prefer the Windows 7 experience while providing for those that want to experience the latest in digital technologies.
Unfortunately, all such attempts land up pleasing no one...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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OriginalGriff wrote: 1) It’s ugly. Very ugly. It’s flat, it’s dull, and all the apps that used to look good on Windows don’t anymore – all the 3D elements (including indented panels) are gone, all the rounded corners are gone. Everything is square, flat, and surrounded by a black line. Not nice to sit and look at, when you are used to prettiness – and all the more unpleasant when you wrote the apps and know how much work you put into making them pretty and pleasant to use.
And the buttons look like they were sketched in as placeholders. All the new icons are monochrome: white on black. I’m guessing that this is to look “simplistic” and “fresh” – but if that’s the case, why is Edges icon Blue, and curly? Consistency is not an MS trait here…
My thinking on the ugly metro look is that all the niceties that went into Win7 and the Aero desktop took processing power. Trying to replicate that feature on a phone proved too problematic so they went the "It's a feature, not a bug route" and went flat with everything to keep the UI responsive. It seemed that almost immediately Android and Apple did the same thing.
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I am not a Microsoft worker, employee and I have no relationship with them. This are my opinions as a user.
I do not agree with you.
Quote: 1) It’s ugly. Very ugly. It’s flat, it’s dull, and all the apps that used to look good on Windows don’t anymore – all the 3Delements (including indented panels) are gone, all the rounded corners are gone. Everything is square, flat, and surrounded by a black line. Not nice to sit and look at, when you are used to prettiness – and all the more unpleasant when you wrote the apps and know how much work you put into making them pretty and pleasant to use.
And the buttons look like they were sketched in as placeholders. All the new icons are monochrome: white on black. I’m guessing that this is to look “simplistic” and “fresh” – but if that’s the case, why is Edges icon Blue, and curly? Consistency is not an MS trait here…
Tiles are horrible – particularly the “live” ones. Fortunately, they are easy to get rid of, and never see again.
As I can see, you love the aereal and 3D multicolored Windows. Vista was the top in this and 7 continued the idea. I think they are beautiful and make the screen looks nice, but they swallow resources like giant. It is possible that great part of Vista's dislike was exactly this. Computers in 2007, the year of Vista, weren't so powerfull, so putting in them an OS like Vista made them run like a turtle and non responsive so users started to feel uncomfortable. When Vista appeared, I used to use a really powerful machine, (for that time  ) and I had only a few problems with this OS (some drivers didn't work well one or two programs that needed to be adjusted...). I don't hate Vista, nor 7. Today we can find a slow machines, with 2 GB or less of RAM, and Atom or Celeron processors, which can make your live really hard if you need to work with them. If you use an OS with crystal and 3D and all that, an important part of the machine resources will be used in showing the windows, icons, etc. For this, I prefer a responsive plain OS over turtle 3D crystal OS.
Quote: 2) It doesn’t like you. Like me, you probably had a local login on your system – in theory that is still available, but Win 10 doesn’t make it easy to do, so you give in and sign in with your Microsoft ID. Which works fine! Until you try to edit a file in Word (which works, Office 2010 is still running under Win 10) and notice (too late) that it’s read only. Everything in your documents folder – which for me is everything (including projects) to make it easy to back up – is read only. You can fix this – I explained how a week ago – but it’s unnecessary, and if you aren’t computer literate it’s going to be a problem.
I did not have problems with my documents. All are read-write as always.
Quote: 3) It doesn’t care about your backups. In fact, the default power scheme puts the computer to sleep about fifteen minutes in, which breaks the backup… It’s fixable…but why? Was the computer set to do that before? No. No, Microsoft, it wasn’t…
I don't know about backups. I use an external program for that.
Quote: 4) It doesn’t like your browser. So it sets Edge as your default. And Edge is…um…nasty. It’s ugly (so it fits right in with Win 10), but its toolbar takes too much room. It is faster than Chrome and Firefox – slightly – but that’s pretty irrelevant compared to the discomfort of using it. I went back to Chrome.
Edge is slightly faster than Chrome or Firefox? For me, some times, depending of the web page, is more than twice. The aspect is consistent with OS. Have you seen the resources consumption of Edge Vs Chrome or Firefox? Try it.
Quote: 5) It really doesn’t like Google – Bing is the order of the day, and it takes work to bodge round that.
Yes it likes Bing. Bing is Microsoft's. But you can change it easily, don't you?
Quote: 6) Cortana I can’t comment on – it won’t run on my PC because I didn’t approve all the conditions of the Microsoft total-lack-of Privacy agreement – and without that, it doesn’t run. But I can talk to Google anyway – and did, two or three times – and I swear at my computer enough without it understanding what I say!
One of the most important innovations of Win 10, Cortana and you haven't use it? By the way, have you read the agreements for using Chrome? or Gmail? or Hotmail? Do you think that your privacy is safe using them? After reading all of them, I extracted the idea they are really the same thing  .
Quote: Metro apps are no longer full screen! Wow! They are just twice the size of everything else, and…full of curves…hmmm… So you are using a desktop app, and it’s the right size, click on settings and you get text twice the size in a new window. Sigh | 
Metro apps work different from desktop. They are aimed to tablets and phones or any touchscreen device. Of course you can use them in a desktop machine. Do not blame the OS for give you the opportunity to use a touchscreen application in your desktop. In Win 8 the people hated the "double" screen. One for desktop and one for Metro. Now we have both worlds in one screen and now you hate this too. I think it is not easy to have people happy...
Quote: 8) Windows Defender. Oh dear. Despite whatever you tell it to do, if your computer “becomes idle” it starts Antimalware and scans the whole thing. This takes a whole core, and monopolises your HDD, so your whole computer slows to a crawl. It took 38 minutes to display the Windows Defender UI at one point because it won’t show that while the scan is in progress. Mad |
Kaspersky trial version now installed and so far that has all stopped
.
I agree with this. When is checking the machine, Defender uses too much resources. For me, McAfee and Avast are worst, but Avira and Karspersky are better.
I am happy with Windows 10, I liked Win 8.1. I did not like Win 8 basically for compatibility issues. Before that, I felt comfortable using any other Windows OS (7, Vista, XP, Me, 98, 95, 3.11, 3.1, 3.0) I think they are not perfect, but gives us the possibility to have our work done fast and well.
If you want a good life, use what you have well, enjoy every moment and do not blame others for your mistakes...
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It seems most of your dislikes are about aesthetics, which, you know, are very personal. I personally like how it looks very much.
Metro apps, I don't use them, so they don't bother me.
I don't use Windows Defender, so it doesn't bother me as well. I don't think anybody should use Windows Defender, it's very badly rated by security firms. Use Karspersky or BitDefender instead (both have free versions).
Cortana needs to collect your data to provide a better user experience, it needs to know you, to better serve you. I'm not really concerned with all that privacy paranoia. I don't really care, I'm not a criminal and have nothing to hide.
And all the rest are all about fine tuning the OS to your taste, like power plan, security level, etc. Which you do it anyways in any fresh OS setup. By the way, don't forget to turn off the setting that makes your PC a P2P server for windows update. It's on by default and if you don't, you will be serving windows updates to the world, with your bandwidth.
I love Windows 10, it has many cool features. Some I'm still to experiment with.
Hopefully it will sink into you
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Griff,
I get happier and happier that I decided to sit this one out. My systems were all set to upgrade and something in my head screamed DON'T so I removed that KB fix that would have performed the upgrade. The more I read in various places the more I realize I dodged a bullet. Win7 is on all of my machines except my main development box which has 8.1 and works FINE. I placed "Start8" on this guy and boot up in desktop mode. The desktop GUI in 8.1, although flattened compared with Win7 has actually grown on me a bit, it's certainly not a problem. My apps still look fine.
I checked all this out on a VM with Win10 and found the same things you did with regard to the GUI and personally thought it sucked.
Thanks for your detailed review. I'm convinced I made the right call by staying put. I've got better things to do than fiddle with the OS anymore anyway.
Thanks,
-ClockMeister
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1) Entirely a matter of opinion, surely? There will be just as many wondering what all that past beautification had to do with anything. Surely, they will opine, what matters is function?
2) I've said previously that this is a gripe which seems to be bordering on unique to you. I started with a local account, an option clearly available in the initial upgrade, I later transferred to the MS account to test out some synchronised elements, and have recently returned to a local account. None of these changes involved any difficulty.
3) Again, in my initial update the power scheme was retained exactly as I previously had configured it.
4) So, you've never had to change your default browser before? When you installed W7, for example? Edge has a way to go - didn't we all know that?
5) MS apps use MS search engine shock! At least it is tweakable even if it feels like too much trouble.
6) So why did you?
7) Doctor, doctor it hurts when I do this. Well don't do it then!
8) Nope. Defender has worked without the slightest hitch since the upgrade.
Is W10 perfect? No. Is it, as you suggest, terrible, unusable and infinitely annoying? No. Not at all. I wasn't going to upgrade. I now have, after a bit of experimenting in a VM, and I really haven't had any problems. I fully anticipated having to do some tweaking as you would when installing any new OS and have been more than surprised by just how little I've had to do. I've no interest in reversing your decision but I do think it should be up to each of us to make that decision for ourselves on our own terms which requires a rather less biassed assessment than your diatribe provides.
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One thing people need to keep in mind with Windows 10 is that YMMV.
1) I don't mind the new look, except for a couple of things, the difference between active and in-active windows needs to be less subtle and the borders need to be a bit thicker as it can be a PITA to resize windows when using a trackpad. Live tiles are fine, on a tablet, I don't need them on a desktop start menu.
2) If you're on a domain it doesn't ask for a Microsoft ID it just keeps the domain account, other than that enter a dummy account then continue without a Microsoft ID.
3) My backups are fine, scheduled task calling wbAdmin.
4) Take note, when upgrading there is a section where it tries to set the default apps, don't click next, instead click the link on the bottom left where it says "Customize default apps" or something similar and you can de-select all the new default apps. As for Edge, it is rough, one issue is that importing favourites causes them to be placed in alphabetical order with any folders placed at the bottom also there doesn't seem to be an easy way to re-order them.
5) I don't like Google either so not sure what the problem is here..
6) Cortana, well it works, personally I think it makes more sense on a phone than a desktop, I just can't get used to talking to my computer.
7) Don't use Metro apps except in tablet mode so no comment.
8) Never had Windows Defender do anything that weird, not even on my old Core2 duo laptop.
Personally I don't have a problem with the majority of Win 10 except for Edge which does need work.
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs
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I have spent almost as much time ranting about Win10 as I have trying to fix it. Now I have a stable install and I am gradually introducing it to my favourite programs (old school, don't like to call them applications). Yes I had a little issue with logins but it was easy to sort out. Dual booting was a problem until I killed fast start (didn't notice the difference).
Generally it works. That's all I can honestly say. It hasn't blown me away with its wonderfulness and my personal preference is for the resource hungry Win7 look.
Bearing in mind MS will probably stop supporting Win7 before too long I decided to bite the bullet and go for it. So far I haven't regretted it.
The only bit that really doesn't work for me is Cortana.
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
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Your #1 point is mine too! I installed this hideous spectacle of a UI on my home PC. For my older eyes, everything is harder to discern. It works OK and I won't bother reverting but when I think about the Win 7 look and feel (which I stall have at work, hallelujah) I get pizzed off. Why, why, why did they do this to me? Who thought this look was an improvement? Part of it may be change for the sake of marketing, it must be significantly different to appear new. OMG, gag me with a spoon.
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Thanks. I wondered.
I need a computer that works good for development, photo and video editing, multiple browsers.... Win 7 is great, but I was open to 10. I hate the flat style and no borders. That style came with the excuse that they were distractions, but it is really that phones don't have the room. They aren't distractions, they are important information on a desktop.
In that I have figured out already that Win 10 is mostly made for spying on you, I have been developing a Linux Mint installation for everything but VS and video editing. I'm in the middle of getting Wine in for 90% of what I do. Then I can install solitaire and NotePad++. 95% of the time I am just browsing, writing, playing solitaire or editing photos (Oh Gimp it all!). I'll turn on Windows when I need to.
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Maybe because I am 45 I am not so sensitive about how windows borders look or about windows tiles.
I did upgrade my ASUS core i7 laptop from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10, installed VS 2013, VS 2010, MySQL, Office and have worked with it from day one without trouble. In fact I don't see much difference from Windows 8.x but for the start menu which I would like to say that I missed a lot, but no. It's just a menu, it's simple, so it's ok.
In my main gaming machine I also use Windows 10 and all my steam collection is still working as usual.
Maybe I am prone to accept anything without questioning much. But in my opinion Windows 10 is a fine OS. If your cheese is moved please look a bit to the left and continue your day
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I've noticed something very important, so EVERYONE PAY ATTENTION, GOD DAMN IT!... which is that Windows 10 works much, much better as a clean install than as an upgrade. But do the upgrade anyway, then reinstall it from scratch, wiping everything out.
Here's why:
When Windows 10 first activates, it registers your PC on Microsoft's servers. By "your PC" I mean the motherboard, or the serial number in the processor, or something - not sure what (it'd be interesting to see how much of the PC you can change without breaking the process). But then, you can wipe your PC completely and reinstall Windows 10 WITHOUT entering a serial number (just keep selecting "skip" or "do this later" when it asks) and it'll auto-activate itself again once the installation is done, without you having to do anything: Microsoft's servers will recognize your hardware and make it happen, and you won't waste a serial number, or an installation, or whatever.
Alles Klaar?
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Ah, yes - that's the one. I knew I'd seen it somewhere...
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This doesn't surprise me at all. The direction MS has been going with Windows has pretty much convinced me that W7 is the last Microsoft Windows version I will use. When that is no longer feasible my VM Linuxes will become my mainstay.
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I ran it for a day then reverted back to Win 7. Then, after reading about
the privacy and the poor performance issues I know I will never install
it again. As a personal protest, I wiped windows off my backup PC and
installed Ubuntu.
73
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Excellent observations; I pretty much have had the same experience and feelings. As for the loss of the Windows 7 look & feel, I'm most annoyed by the loss of the colored top bar. And the part about me using my E-mail address as my login was horrid; I managed to find an article that detailed how to get rid of it. One lingering problem I seem to be having is the the User Security, as some of my files seem to need to be changed to being owned by me (or whatever.)
I bought a system that had 8.1 installed ( couldn't find one with 7), and I decided to completely rebuild it with 7; this has caused a lot of strange hardware issues, including not being able to use my MagicJack dongle. What do you know In 10, it works perfectly.
There are still some issues that bug me, like not having file & icon associations persist through updates, but learned to live with 10, and hopefully Micro$oft will grt the hint to fix the remaining issues.
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That's one of the most inciteful summaries I've seen so far. With all its foibles, WinNT was the easiest to manage. Microsoft will have Win10 sorted out by 2020, just in time to make it obsolete and force us on to the next mistake.
The difficult may take time, the impossible a little longer.
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Well, I am still running windows XP and will do so for as long as I can before switching to Mac. I have used windows 7 on client computers and it's fine, though the nwer vesrions of Office with that agonising Ribbon of death are not. However, mainstream support has, I believe, already ended as have sales of windows 7 (correct me if I am wrong). At least with XP I don't have to have a coffee, my old PC boots quick as a flash. The only downside is I cannot use the latest versions of VS express and Netbeans, but then I don't need to at the moment. Eventually my IDE will be too many versions behind and then I will have to switch. This old PC does what I want - the OS is easy to use, I can write the applications I need, I can do the computer graphics I spend so much time on, I can manage my website, and it generally works very well. (It can overheat when doing graphics intensive tasks on a very hot day though, but I monitor its temperature and pause it if necessary).
What would make me buy a new PC with a Microsoft OS? One that is like Windows XP, only newer, more powerful, faster, respected my privacy and was more secure. Basically a better version of Windows XP would make me buy a new PC today (or as soon as I have a day off work). No hope there then.
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