The Lounge - CodeProject

Member 9082365 wrote:
No, an electric current passes through the whole wire. But this isn't an electric current - that's why they call it static!

Eh

So what is the difference between an electric current and static, don't they both originate from the fact that they are electrons jiggling about?

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

― Christopher Hitchens

Well, ultimately everything in the Universe is due to electrons jiggling about! In an electric current there is a flow of electrons from one point to another. With static the surface merely becomes charged with extra electrons (or in some cases with a deficit of electrons). There is no current unless and until the charge becomes so great that it escapes, and then it will be a violent single escape, a spark, or a lightning bolt, not a steady flow. It's this difference which distinguishes a resistor and a capacitor in electric circuits, one allowing current to pass, the other cutting current off until such time as sufficient charge has built up.

What is the this you're refering to?

"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
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Member 9082365 wrote:
No, an electric current passes through the whole wire.

Sometimes it uses the entire wire. Sometimes the surface. Since it is lightning though it should be DC (same site claims that.)

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/109897/does-electricity-flow-on-the-surface-of-a-wire-or-in-the-interior[^]

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

It's not electricity. It's an electric charge and it always stays on the exterior. That's why they advise you to get into or stay in your car in a thunderstorm. It's called a Faraday Cage; Google it, watch the relevant Mythbusters episode, consult Bill Nye, The Science Guy, or just read a book. It's amazing what you can learn!

Sheesh, next you'll be telling me that a hyena's a canine!

So, you're saying I could just use a hollow metal tube one atom thick of the same "gauge" (i.e., diameter) as a "normal" wire and it would work just fine? Me thinks not. In fact, it depends on the type of current (DC or AC). DC (like that of a lightning bolt) flows through the bulk cross-section of a wire. AC, depending on the frequency of the current, experiences the skin-effect where the higher the frequency the thinner the surface area that is used. Even so, some AC current does indeed still flow through the cross-section of the wire.

The fact is the lightning flowed THROUGH the SKIN of the plane!

Member 9082365 wrote:
hyena's a canine

You shouldn't call yourself names.

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz wrote:
The fact is the lightning flowed THROUGH the SKIN of the plane!

No, it is not. The lightning charged the surface of the plane. This charge dissipated to earth. There was at no time a current passing through the plane other than that provided by its own batteries down its own wires. Were that not the case the modern electrically operated plane would be all but impossible - it would simply fall out of the sky the moment it was struck by even the least powerful lightning which, as tyens, if not hundreds, of planes are struck a day across the world, would be rather inconvenient!

LOL. Go learn some physics. See ya!

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

The shoe, I fear, is entirely on the other foot. I've given you many suggestions as to resources to correct your ignorance. If you can't be bothered to take advantage of them then by all means continue enjoying Fox News and National Enquirer level insight into the world around you.

Ad hominem. That last desperate false "argumentation" of the ill-informed and self-righteous.

You know nothing about me.

TTYL.

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

Member 9082365 wrote:
No, it is not. The lightning charged the surface of the plane. This charge dissipated to earth.

Aren't you two saying the same thing, just with different words? Confused | :confused:

There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

Indeed. If it's "charging the surface of the plane", then it's "going through the skin of the plane". Sheesh.

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

Member 9082365 wrote:
charged the surface of the plane. This charge dissipated to earth. There was at no time a current

"This must be a definition of 'current' of which I was not previously aware." -- Arthur Dent

42!

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

I think any electronic circuit (which is visible while flaps are full open) does not bother about "through metal" or not. Then it is just a question of potential difference....

modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.

Indeed.

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

Sorry I'm maybe late or at the wrong time for this but I Need to give a note for your sig.:
Wernher von Braun was most probably an excellent engineer, but also a Nazi!

modified 19-Jan-21 21:04pm.

He was forced to join the Nazi party and to work for them. So, no, not a Nazi.

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

Until you start raising the frequency at which point the surface effect gets more important - hence why waveguides are generally used rather than wires at microwave frequencies.

However I've no idea what the frequency of a lightning discharge would be so unsure as to what extent this would apply.

I raise that point in another post. However, Lightening is referred to as "static electricity" (essentially DC) so frequency is irrelevant.

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

Research would imply that its actually a very broad spectrum ranging from ELF (3-30Hz) up to microwave frequencies (1Ghz+)

http://radiometrics.com/data/uploads/2014/01/Petersen_AR_14.pdf

Admitedly pure DC would indeed be made up of components of all frequencies but it appears that some frequencies are more pronounced.

Interference of radio signals during a thunderstorm would also support this. Also don't forget Marconi's transmitter was a spark transmitter.

greldak wrote:
Interference of radio signals

Wouldn't this be caused by the interactions with the atmosphere?

greldak wrote:
some frequencies are more pronounced.

That makes sense with the "flashing" that occurs with lightening.

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

Not with the atmosphere per se but yes - thats the electrical discharge.

The fuselage is acting as an antenna and so a current will be induced in it at the frequencies of the EM radiation to which it is exposed. This then gets reradiated as another electrical discharge.
With the huge currents involved the air ionises which is what we see as lightning.

In practice this happens thousands of times every year. The current flows around the fuselage so all parts of the aircraft are at the same potential. This means you can safely touch the metal parts of the aircract as the potential difference between the two point you are connecting is zero. - This is also why seagulls don't get electrocuted when they land on a high voltage powerline.

greldak wrote:
With the huge currents involved the air ionises

This is what I meant by interacting with the atmosphere. Isn't it the ionization of the air that causes the radio interference? Does a spark in a vacuum cause the same interference?

Decrease the belief in God, and you increase the numbers of those who wish to play at being God by being “society’s supervisors,” who deny the existence of divine standards, but are very serious about imposing their own standards on society.-Neal A. Maxwell
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun

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“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”