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:cough: Perl :cough:
 Really a comment on "scripting languages" in general that provide simplicity at the cost of features. Serious programs require a rich set of datatypes and therefore strong typing.
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That's just it, PHP started off as a scripting language, it's no longer one. You can use it that way if you want, but it's not required. It's no different than Java or .NET now in the fact you can pre-compile into bytecode and run that. You can even package modules into PHAR files that work very similar to assemblies.
PHP is growing up, but I'd wager most of its "scriptness" feel is due to legacy support. And your right, it still has that "scriptness" feel to it because you don't see it compiling in your IDE, that happens on the server behind the scenes.
For me, PHP's strength is the ungodly amount of things you can do with it. And it runs on Unix/Linux. It's faster than other *nix alternatives that I know of (RoR = slow), and beats writing a web app in C/C++. So, hopefully we'll get some of those missing goodies one day... oh unsigned ints.
Oh, and PHP does have type support. Just not strong typing. That's not the same as no typing.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: It's faster than other *nix alternatives that I know of (RoR = slow), and beats writing a web app in C/C++
Why is it that it seems so few *Nix web devs talk about JSP? JSP seems like the *real alternative to ASP.NET (instead of PHP) and yet you rarely hear much about it.
Is it because of the Apache (tomcat, glassfish, whatever) configuration that goes along with it?
Just curious.
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I can't speak for everyone, but my path never took me down the JSP / J2EE road. I've been doing web development before JSP existed, and back in the mid 90s the only time I even cared about Java was for writing applets for my web pages. Never went too far with it back then since its UI library at the time was just slow (Swing I think it was). So, I stayed away from it. 20 years later I'm sure it's a different ballgame though, especially since JSP wouldn't even need a UI library.
That's also the reason I use PHP. PHP is the grandfather of it all. It's what was available when I got into web dev, and it was a great tool. Even before classic ASP came to be and still even after ASP was out there, the difference between classic ASP and PHP was night and day. PHP beat it in every way possible since classic ASP was really just six objects and VBScript or JScript. So, I stayed with PHP.
When JSP and even Cold Fusion started hitting the scene I had no reason to use it since I've been using PHP for years I didn't see a point in learning something new. I ended up doing a fair amount of ASP.NET for my job, but after years of PHP development I know how to work that stinking thing all kinds of weird ways to get some really awesome things out of it. So in short, I don't have a reason enough to justify taking the time to learn JSP / J2EE.
Jeremy Falcon
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Can't check the link as it's blocked at work. Bummer.
Jeremy Falcon
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That's the one thing you don't like about it? 
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One of the quirks, yeah. The PHP logo is ugly too. But I can live with that. I've been using PHP since the late 90s, it's not nearly as bad some people think it is. The development of it is slower than say what MS or Oracle can do, but all things considered it's still a nice piece of software. A bit like the VB of the web world, where it's more a function of the programmer than the language making things with it that suck.
Jeremy Falcon
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The three really irritating things about php are the -> arrows and dollar signs, the completely random api methods, and using . for string concatenation. I really like wordpress which is built on php, the way double quote strings work, and the loose typing. Everything so far seems like a wash.
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I've defended these points so many times I'm tired of repeating myself. These aren't real reasons; they're religious-type reasons man. It only tells me you don't know much about PHP. And yes, I *could* iterate each reason and explain it. I just don't feel like it. Muwahahaha.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: These aren't real reasons; they're religious-type reasons man.
Please, don't tell me how to think. I'm going to dislike PHP for that stuff no matter what you say, you don't have to defend it. I still use it and build some pretty cool software with it.
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Andy Brummer wrote: Please, don't tell me how to think. I'm going to dislike PHP for that stuff no matter what you say, you don't have to defend it.
Spoken like a religious person.
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote: Spoken like a religious person.
I see.
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I'm comparatively new to php. It does the job for me most admirably.
And (with its function library) it also look like C - and that, alone causes a warm fuzzy feeling with memories of when my hair was all dark.
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Good for you man. Right out of the box, one of the best things you'll notice about PHP is the amount of open source crap out there you can use with it, especially on a *nix machine where you can shell out. Need to resample audio files? No problem. Need to convert PDF to text? No problem. And the list goes on. There are tons of libs out there to help you with this all for free. It does have a few flaws IMO, but the good outweighs the bad.
Jeremy Falcon
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I like the fact that a lot of anti Israel sites are written using Zend
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Well there ya go! 
Jeremy Falcon
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After years of using and defending PHP, you *finally* bumped up against something that you found a problem with? Or did you even bump into an issue with it, your post seems to say you saw someone else having an issue with it on YT.
If it works for you, what's the problem?
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Sounds like an opportunity to me. PHP is in fact open source. Like it's been pointed out in this thread, there are many community things out there that you can use to overcome your hurdles.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0[^]
Top comment from YouTube staff :
We never thought a video would be watched in numbers greater than a 32-bit integer (=2,147,483,647 views), but that was before we met PSY. "Gangnam Style" has been viewed so many times we have to upgrade!
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At least it is signed, to allow for the "unviewers"?
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That's the first thing I thought too. Nice to know even YT has some legacy code they'd rather not talk about. Makes me feel better.
Jeremy Falcon
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If we all go and watch the YouTube video of the Arianne rocket launch fail caused by an integer overflow...we might cause a YouTube integer overflow.
This is how we will defeat the terminator robots in our dystopian future - unchecked integer assignments.
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