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Steve is Vito Corleone and Tim is Tom Hagen.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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You should read A First-rate Madness[^]
In part it explores the thesis that those with mental illness (specifically depression) see the world far more realistically than those without, and hence make clearer, better (and sometimes harsher) decisions that those that have on the more usual rose-coloured glasses.
I'm not suggesting Jobs suffered from depression, but it is certainly interested reading about how different times call for different leaders.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Actually, some people suspect Steve had bipolar II disorder.
Anyway, I'm not suggesting Jobs suffered from depression, has a very different ring to it
than you might have intended it to have. This feels like "covert" stigmatization, which is just as bad as overt.
Maybe you didn't plan for it, but think about it, attaching a sense of negativity to the fact that someone has
depression is stigmatization.
As someone with first-hand experience, reading something like that isn't cool.
I'm not a militant "you hurt my feelings" kind of guy, just wanted to kindly point that out.
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Sebastian Porstendorfer wrote: As someone with first-hand experience, reading something like that isn't cool
You're not the only one with first hand, up-close-and-personal experience.
Sebastian Porstendorfer wrote: This feels like "covert" stigmatization
That's your call. How about you take it as it was meant to be taken: "I'm not a doctor, I never knew Steve, and I dislike verdicts by media. Whatever Jobs was, he was. I am simply stating clearly that I have no interest in labeling him as anything, good, bad or normal."
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: Sebastian Porstendorfer wrote: As someone with first-hand experience, reading something like that isn't cool
You're not the only one with first hand, up-close-and-personal experience.
Never said I was. 20% of the world population share this experience with me, and anybody else unlucky enough to meet the black dog. I take it from your comment you have been in contact with depression in one form or another, and I'm sorry for that, I would not wish that on anyone.
Chris Maunder wrote: Sebastian Porstendorfer wrote: This feels like "covert" stigmatization
That's your call. How about you take it as it was meant to be taken: "I'm not a doctor, I never knew Steve, and I dislike verdicts by media. Whatever Jobs was, he was. I am simply stating clearly that I have no interest in labeling him as anything, good, bad or normal."
Sure is. As I said earlier, and I think I made that pretty clear, it's not about me or hurt feelings on my side or whatever, all I wanted to do was point out that this specific form of relativation of one's own words is not without perils of its own. Subtly. Veeeeery subtly  Please forgive me if my benevolent intention of simply pointing to this finer nuance of speech as a potential trouble source has been miscommunicated in any way.
Btw, ordered the book, looking forward to reading it, especially considering who the author is.
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It's all good, and enjoy the book (though I do feel it suffered a little from cherry-picking the examples).
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Btw, didn't know that book, will read!
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Are the French or Italians the worst fighters? Why no, Austria[^] seems to not only double-suck but maybe even hitting a treble.
So well done Austria, you're more yellow then the French!
This does not change my opinion that the French are garlic eating surrender monkeys.
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Nagy Vilmos wrote: This does not change my opinion that the French are garlic eating surrender monkeys.
As Napoleon himself once said, "Our ridiculous national fault is that the greatest enemy of our success and glory is ourselves."
-- Clarke, Stephen: 1000 Years of Annoying the French
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Sorry, you seem to be under the misapprehension that I care. 
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Never let the facts get in the way of a good bit of sledging
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: As for the French, the joke is only funny because it keeps annoying the French, but it really has little support in historical facts.
Annoying the cheese eating surrender monkeys French is far more important than little things like "facts".
As a great man once said, facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts, schmacts.[^]
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Oh dear - looks like I've pissed off a couple of Frenchies who either don't have a sense of humour, or missed the "joke" icon.
Two "spam or abusive message" reports so far. 
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Not me, I voted it up!
Elephant elephant elephant, sunshine sunshine sunshine
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Next I suppose you'll be trying to insist that this[^] isn't a wholely accurate account of the last 2+ millennia of French Military HistoryDefeats.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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I did read that the French only win when led by either a Foreigner or a lunatic
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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OK, I'll bite: was it a foreigner or a lunatic who led French into victory against combined forces of Prussia and the Holy Roman Empire at Valmy 1792?
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: was it a foreigner or a lunatic who led French into victory against combined forces of Prussia and the Holy Roman Empire at Valmy 1792
According to Wikipedia there were two of them, one was German and the other was a Walloon.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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I missed the fact that we wasn't a Frenchman
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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François Christophe de Kellermann was French, although his family was of Saxon descent.
Charles-François du Périer Dumouriez was French both by birth and descent. He grew up in Belgium, that much is true.
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they why did HE consider himself a Walloon?
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: François Christophe de Kellermann was French,
Both his parents were German, he'd have played for Germany in the World Cup.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: Charles-François du Périer Dumouriez was French both by birth and descent
He didn't consider himself French, merely French speaker.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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That's a victory?
the French invade Belgium get driven back and the fight a battle that ends in stalemate then claim victory when the opposing General decides that the victory would not be worth the loss of lives
and according to some was bribed with the crown jewels to stop his advance
only a Frenchman could claim that as a victory
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
modified 11-Jul-14 9:39am.
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