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Bergholt Stuttley Johnson wrote: we have a pay freeze and are thinking of ways to get round it)
You mean like stealing stationary?
This week I learnt that the reason we have a turnstyle into the car park from the offices is because too many people were collecting things from stores and walking them to their car and then home.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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not sure I could get stealing stationary added to my enumeration package, just a feeling they may baulk at it
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter wrote: drink (unfortunately no alcoholic
Unless you work in a brewery. 
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Distance of commute: about 3 meters.
Flexible working hours: all of them, unless Herself complains.
Official permission to goof off from the boss of the company.
Simple dress code: whatever I want except when I meet new customers when it has to be smart.
Animals allowed in office. (Not the only place where that has been allowed: one place I worked had a bunch of dogs and there was always time to throw a ball in the orchard for them)
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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OriginalGriff wrote: Animals allowed in office
We have a special room to meet customers...
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Animals allowed in office. (Not the only place where that has been allowed: one place I worked had a bunch of dogs colleagues and there was always time to throw a ball in the orchard for at them)
FIFY
at least some of the places I have worked
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Funny you should mention that...the same company had an annual paintball contest and barbeque in the bosses garden between the staff and the customers. It was great for getting a little pay-back for the previous year!
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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One of my previous companies was so bad that had they tried this most of the attendee's would have turned up with live rounds
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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One or two of the customers, I was tempted myself!
One of my great pleasures was being able to shoot a certain female customer (who knew nothing about her job) directly in the stomach from about three feet. Bruised? Oh yes...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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OriginalGriff wrote: One of my great pleasures was being able to shoot a certain female customer (who knew nothing about her job) directly in the stomach from about three feet.
Let's keep it holy now... 
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I'm working from home today and the wife had This Morning on the telly where they were doing a piece on penis enlargement operations ("I was born with 10 inches but I wanted a monster") so thanks to Phil and Holly I now know exactly what constitutes your package, and it is not pleasant.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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We do, or did, have quite a comprehensive package here, some of the companies still do.
Flexible working (start / end times, wfh, flexitime)
Bonuses (personal performance related OR company performance related)
Overtime (not me)
Free gym on site
Bike purchase scheme
PC at home - salary sacrifice
Car lease - salary sacrifice
Company car (not me)
Monthly lottery - salary sacrifice
Health care (various options)
Lifestyle benefits company membership thing
Subsidised on-site nursery
Child care vouchers
Probably other things I've forgotten about
Time off for volunteering
Shell fuel card - takes advantage of corporate discount, what you spend is taken from your salary each month.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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Working right next to a nature reserve where I go for my 30 minute lunchtime daily walk.
Working with a great bunch of people.
Travelling against the traffic into and out of work, which only takes 20 minutes.
Get to pretty much decide what and how I do what I do.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Here's what I have:
1. A handsome take home pay
2. Flexi-timings (more or less)
3. Telecommute
4. Provident Fund & Gratuity (equivalent of 401K)
5. Parking space
6. Distance to commute
7. Health and life insurance
8. Food coupons (optional, can opt for cash instead)
9. Bonus (Individual + Company performance)
10. Mediccal, Telephone, Vehicle and Vacation reimbursement.
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So, I use Excel to make all things equal. If something stands out I add or subtract it in order to balance. For example, if the particular position has a terrible commute, negotiate a higher salary. Same for parking expenses. If the position has free, good lunches, subtract it, etc. Then just compare cash apples to cash apples. So often in the negotiation phase I am presented with the Statement, well you have to consider our great benefits ... I did, and they were lacking. Excel is King.
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Price off on Public transport comute ticket (If you want it)
Parking place at reasonable rent (10 Francs/ month)
Working outside of town, so coumuting against traffic
Some extra cash for lunch
Some others I forgot..
The signature is in building process.. Please wait...
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Fully covered medical
13% yearly contribution to 401k, not matching
yearly bonus
4 weeks vacation
standard US holidays plus a week at Christmas
Fitness club membership
Treadmill desk, and extremely nice offices
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Talking about our packages is non-KSS.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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I thought that was a bit rude, myself, and I'm not even a kid sister.
Will Rogers never met me.
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Either pickup/drop cab facility or Parking space
Health and life insurance
Meal card
Mobile phone reimbursement
once per year, a two day trip to any nearby resort.
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Now ive got your attention here's a little story, and I swear every word is true.
ive been self employed for over 20 yrs now but the best package I ever had was in the mid 80's - I had a salary increase of 40%, a brand new company car, free petrol for home use as well as business, all the ex's I wanted, and my boss was a boozer who's main concern was that he'd have a drinking partner for most of the week. it was great until he messed up big time coz work wasn't getting done, so the MD put a private eye on him who followed him into a massage parlour and that night a burly guy repossessed his company car and told him not to bother going in again. This reflected badly on me and to cut a story short I didn't grass on him as he was a mate so I got sacked too lol, but after they realised *most* of the issues were of his doing felt bad about it so offered me a large ex-gratia payment and employed me on a self employed basis for about 6 month, meaning I earned more in a week than I did in a month while working there, and I walked into another job soon as I needed to - lovely
I even went into one job interview (after being sacked and asked by a competitor who knew my work to see them in london) and post interview in the pub the director who recommended me pointed to his pack of john player special and asked 'did I smoke anything stronger that these'. i've always believed honesty is the best policy so told him that I did, and his reply to that was 'great, when we shut the doors at 6 o clock we all like a toke or two and I didn't want you to be shocked' - you couldn't make it up, but I didn't take the job coz of other reasons. - this was not a 2 bit company and I better not say who btw.
I loved the 80's....
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that's one up on me, I don't remember the 80s (well most of it)
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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Commute: 5 minutes in rush hour traffic (live 2 miles from job)
WorkPlace: Flexible. Have to be in office or available during core working hours. Also have a work remote policy
Dress: Casual
Food/Drink: Cafeteria on site, a ton of places to get food nearby, Free Coffee/Tea/Cocoa
Holidays and vacations
Bonuses
Work outings (picnics, baseball games, bowling, etc.)
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Noticed your timestamp. Having a hard time sleeping?
From what I'm seeing , it depends on how much they want and what they are willing to pay for you.
At my ex job, a year and a half ago, they had two type of hires:
The craigslist folks.. which usually did most of the heavy pulling.
For us craigslist folks, we had a low paycheck ( startup.. ), 2 weeks PTO, basic healthcare after the first 6 months, and a basic 401k after the 1st year of being with them.
And the primadonas:
The owners wanted to sell the company but they thought it wasn't appealing to investors since the driving force mostly had an unknown background. Thus they went to various prestigious universities to gather "talent". So for these straight off the college benches the job offer looked like:
1. Fly in business to NYC for interview with stay at a high class hotel in downtown manhan.
2. Relocation package: 1st month hotel paid by the company, 2 months worth of your pay as a signup bonus.
3. Close to 40% more on signup than the craigslist crowd.
4. Team lead, key position.
5. Holiday bonuses.
6. 401k after 6 months of work, immediate healthcare.
7. Conferences, paid training, etc.
Got all these at a holiday party when people open their hearths and share knowledge.. And then I quit.
At my new job I got:
1. relocation bonus.
2. 15 days of PTO first year, 22 days of PTO second year.
3. Immediate full healthcare + dental, 401k after the 6 first months.
4. They have good food perks, unlimited coffee, soda, snacks, sweets, and a fridge full of icecream.
Periodically they bring in pizza, bagels, fruit.
5. Paid paternity/ maternity leave for close to half a year.. but I'm not at that age yet.. lol..
Neither companies put too much value on actual office presence. And both have "flexible hours".
Wish they would have paid for classes, and extra training but they don't.
Point is, if you have the chip to bargain, stretch it as much as you can. If they offer low pay ask for more PTO to balance it out, for example. And don't get attached to them, cause from what I learned, the last people to leave a company when things go south are the owners and the marketing people, in contrast to what one might think, us programmers are among the first to be laid off.
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