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You should try being a DBA, SQL Dev...
I just tell people I fix things that none one else understands, including myself. 
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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S Douglas wrote: I just tell people I fix things that none one else understands, including myself.
Haven't tried that one. Thanks. 
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL.
I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
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Because IT'S BACON!
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I'm an optoholic - my glass is always half full of vodka.
=========================================================
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What's with the use of "coder" or "engineer" or "coding" and so on, instead of "programmer" and "programming" all over the place: to read people's articles these days is, seemingly, to observe a carefully-planned avoidance of the terms... I even read one article which said, "When you're going for a job, don't use the word 'programmer' because it puts employers off," but then again, if they're hiring programmers, then what's wrong with being a programmer?
More to the point, don't "coding" and "coder" sound menial to you - as though you have no actual idea of what you're doing, but are simply sitting on an assembly line, putting together other people's ideas? It seems to me that there's a type of self-denigration going on in the programming world: twenty years ago, we appeared to people as gods; now we're seemingly trying to blend in and appear to them in a form they can understand... I don't like it.
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Dan Sutton said: I don't like it.
Ditto!
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I think it happened at the same time that programmers got lumped into IT.
To me IT are the folks that maintain the networking infrastructure. Maybe did light programming (scripts, basic report queries, etc...)
Programmers are the ones who use "real" languages,compilers, etc... to write "real" applications.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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Agreed... which is why it's annoying when web designers think they're "programming in HTML" or some such nonsense...
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Dan Sutton wrote: don't "coding" and "coder" sound menial to you - as though you have no actual idea of what you're doing, but are simply sitting on an assembly line, putting together other people's ideas?
Wouldn't that make it an excellent description of most "programming" jobs?
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Not really, because it precludes the idea that the programmer has anything to do with designing the system -- it sounds more as though he's been told what to write and how to write it, and is just sitting there doing the menial task of putting it all together; in reality, the concept of "programmer" also contains the concept of "systems analyst" -- i.e. if you don't get to make decisions about how the system is designed, then you really are just a coder.
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I love "business analysts". In some places they've been okay, but in most they're people with non-technical backgrounds who haven't got a clue what's actually needed, or how to express it in terms useful for developing an application.
In a recent place I worked, one business analyst's previous job was working in a care home. Nice enough person, but I fail to see how that experience of changing bed sheets and serving meals on trays is relevant. Most of the others were at the same level, experience wise.
Needless to say the project was a complete failure (the worst I've seen in my career) costing rather a lot of money and producing diddly. Still, all the business analysts were a much higher rank and salary than any of the programmers.
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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"I fail to see how that experience of changing bed sheets and serving meals on trays is relevant"
Not been in IT long have you?
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Duh! I should have seen that one coming
modified 31-Aug-21 21:01pm.
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Mine was never that kind of job. I did hardware system IPL.
Dave.
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You lucky bastard. How did you even find a job like that?
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In 1965 I left the Air Force as an EW, and found immediate employment at the relatively newly formed GE mainframe plant in my hometown of Phoenix. I started out in the hardware factory bringing up the hardware systems, then moved into the Test and Diagnostics area, then moved up to the Operating System area. 35 years later I retired, and never had to write a single line of HTML.
Dave.
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Member 4194593 wrote: never had to write a single line of HTML.
Do it. I dare you. You'll feel better for joining the web crowd. Be one of us. Here I'll get you started if you just complete the line...
<p>Hello World!</p...
Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy,
I typed that into my text editor and tried to assemble it with MASM. Here is what I got:
C <p>Hello World!</p
.\pkg\Start.pkg(5229) : error A2045: missing angle bracket or brace in literal
See Algorithms, the entry for April 1st to see what I do for fun and games.
Dave.
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Member 4194593 wrote: See Algorithms, the entry for April 1st to see what I do for fun and games.
Ooooooh, I'm on it. 
Jeremy Falcon
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I just checked my articles and saw that I use 'developer' and it's variants, however that's because I'm not native English and I do translate from hebrew - where the word is 'developer', 'development'...
I do not consider 'program' and 'programmer' to be dirty, but now that you mentioned it I will use it to check possible future employer - he do not likes me to be programmer, I will not work with him!
I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is. (V)
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Dan Sutton wrote: More to the point, don't "coding" and "coder" sound menial to you - as though you have no actual idea of what you're doing,
To me, I don't like the term code monkey. That's menial, like I'm brainless. Anything else I can live with.
Dan Sutton wrote: It seems to me that there's a type of self-denigration going on in the programming world: twenty years ago, we appeared to people as gods; now we're seemingly trying to blend in and appear to them in a form they can understand... I don't like it.
It's because the industry is a lot more blurred now in what we do. Back in the day we didn't have as many roles like QAs, BSAs, et al sticking their hand in the development pot. As the industry got more complex and more titles hopped on board, we're no longer the end all be all to development.
But that shouldn't make you feel bad, it just means we also have to broaden our horizons and continue to grow with the industry. Guys like us started our work lives with a very fresh and new industry around the dot com boom. That doesn't happen too often, especially on the magnitude of something globe changing like the Internet. Dilution of one single role is what happens with any industry that starts maturing.
Jeremy Falcon
modified 28-May-14 14:49pm.
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I much to prefer going by software developer or software architect since it to me gives more meaning of developing new ideas/products, or being the architect behind a software tool/process that helps my business clients move forward.
"I've seen more information on a frickin' sticky note!" - Dave Kreskowiak
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